The type of Airline Pilots we have become
02-25-2009, 06:37 AM
#1
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
The type of Airline Pilots we have become
the difference between now and years ago is when Airline Pilots started their careers there was no ALL ATP, no Gulfstream Airlines etc..............it was much harder to get into the airlines than it was this past summer, and usually the ones who had experience hailed from the Military, and lets not kid ourselves THERE IS NO BETTER TRAINING THAN UNCLE SAM'S when it comes to flying airplanes!!!!!!!!!!!!
However to play devils advocate there was a time when they put ads in the paper and scraped Pilots off the street with PPL to fly 747's, albeit F/E but I dunno exactly how it went.
The point is the type of person in this profession as changed dramatically. I have flown with guys that are so afraid of EVERYTHING, the FAA, ATC, the Company, the Gate Agent, the F/A, they are basically afraid to make their own decisions and it cripples them as Pilots, as well as CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS. Back in the day it was a "Man's Man", you know the type, the grisly Brown Liqueur drinking type of guy that ran the show, didn't take any Sh*t from anyone, could fly an airplane with one wing etc......(much like a lot of Old school Delta,NWA, United, American, TWA etc.......)now its some quasi yuppie nerd who grew up playing Flight Sim, happy with low pay because his parents set him/her up nicely.
Some of you guys may even know him, but when I instructed I worked for Rich Greene, out of Caldwell, NJ (Century) he retired like #14 at American in 2002, he was an Airbus CA, he was very rough around the edges but he knew more about aviation and flying then anyone I ever met, he rubbed people the wrong way, and multiple times people stormed out of his flight school saying he was nuts) but in my mind he was the epitome of an airline pilot, he was kinda rude, insensitive but told you how it was and was in complete control at all times, and would never be told what to do by a Gate agent, but still professional......sorta
The profession has not only lost its pay, and glamor, it is losing good pilots, it is the culmination of our society as a whole, trying to be politically correct, too afraid to speak the truth etc...........
Rant over, I have no idea what I just said but hopefully you guys understand what I am trying to say
However to play devils advocate there was a time when they put ads in the paper and scraped Pilots off the street with PPL to fly 747's, albeit F/E but I dunno exactly how it went.
The point is the type of person in this profession as changed dramatically. I have flown with guys that are so afraid of EVERYTHING, the FAA, ATC, the Company, the Gate Agent, the F/A, they are basically afraid to make their own decisions and it cripples them as Pilots, as well as CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS. Back in the day it was a "Man's Man", you know the type, the grisly Brown Liqueur drinking type of guy that ran the show, didn't take any Sh*t from anyone, could fly an airplane with one wing etc......(much like a lot of Old school Delta,NWA, United, American, TWA etc.......)now its some quasi yuppie nerd who grew up playing Flight Sim, happy with low pay because his parents set him/her up nicely.
Some of you guys may even know him, but when I instructed I worked for Rich Greene, out of Caldwell, NJ (Century) he retired like #14 at American in 2002, he was an Airbus CA, he was very rough around the edges but he knew more about aviation and flying then anyone I ever met, he rubbed people the wrong way, and multiple times people stormed out of his flight school saying he was nuts) but in my mind he was the epitome of an airline pilot, he was kinda rude, insensitive but told you how it was and was in complete control at all times, and would never be told what to do by a Gate agent, but still professional......sorta
The profession has not only lost its pay, and glamor, it is losing good pilots, it is the culmination of our society as a whole, trying to be politically correct, too afraid to speak the truth etc...........
Rant over, I have no idea what I just said but hopefully you guys understand what I am trying to say
Last edited by JoeyMeatballs; 02-25-2009 at 06:49 AM.
02-25-2009, 06:42 AM
#2
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by SAABaroowski
the difference between now and years ago is when Airline Pilots started their careers there was no ALL ATP, no Gulfstream Airlines etc..............it was much harder to get into the airlines than it was this past summer, and usually the ones who had experience hailed from the Military, and lets not kid ourselves THERE IS NO BETTER TRAINING THAN UNCLE SAM'S when it comes to flying airplanes!!!!!!!!!!!!
However to play devils advocate there was a time when they put ads in the paper and scraped Pilots off the street with PPL to fly 747's, albeit F/E but I dunno exactly how it went.
The point is the type of person in this profession as changed dramatically. I have flown with guys that are so afraid of EVERYTHING, the FAA, ATC, the Company, the Gate Agent, the F/A, they are basically afraid to make their own decisions and it cripples them as Pilots, as well as CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS. Back in the day it was a "Man's Man", you know the type, the grisly Brown Liqueur drinking type of guy that ran the show, didn't take any Sh*t from anyone, could fly an airplane with one wing etc......(much like a lot of Old school Delta & NWA guys)now its some quasi yuppie nerd who grew up playing Flight Sim, happy with low pay because his parents set him/her up nicely.
Some of you guys may even know him, but when I instructed I worked for Rich Greene, out of Caldwell, NJ (Century) he retired like #14 at American in 2002, he was an Airbus CA, he was very rough around the edges but he knew more about aviation and flying then anyone I ever met, he rubbed people the wrong way, and multiple times people stormed out of his flight school saying he was nuts) but in my mind he was the epitome of an airline pilot, he was kinda rude, insensitive but told you how it was and was in complete control at all times, and would never be told what to do by a Gate agent, but still professional......sorta
The profession has not only lost its pay, and glamor, it is losing good pilots, it is the culmination of our society as a whole, trying to be politically correct, too afraid to speak the truth etc...........
Rant over, I have no idea what I just said but hopefully you guys understand what I am trying to say
However to play devils advocate there was a time when they put ads in the paper and scraped Pilots off the street with PPL to fly 747's, albeit F/E but I dunno exactly how it went.
The point is the type of person in this profession as changed dramatically. I have flown with guys that are so afraid of EVERYTHING, the FAA, ATC, the Company, the Gate Agent, the F/A, they are basically afraid to make their own decisions and it cripples them as Pilots, as well as CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS. Back in the day it was a "Man's Man", you know the type, the grisly Brown Liqueur drinking type of guy that ran the show, didn't take any Sh*t from anyone, could fly an airplane with one wing etc......(much like a lot of Old school Delta & NWA guys)now its some quasi yuppie nerd who grew up playing Flight Sim, happy with low pay because his parents set him/her up nicely.
Some of you guys may even know him, but when I instructed I worked for Rich Greene, out of Caldwell, NJ (Century) he retired like #14 at American in 2002, he was an Airbus CA, he was very rough around the edges but he knew more about aviation and flying then anyone I ever met, he rubbed people the wrong way, and multiple times people stormed out of his flight school saying he was nuts) but in my mind he was the epitome of an airline pilot, he was kinda rude, insensitive but told you how it was and was in complete control at all times, and would never be told what to do by a Gate agent, but still professional......sorta
The profession has not only lost its pay, and glamor, it is losing good pilots, it is the culmination of our society as a whole, trying to be politically correct, too afraid to speak the truth etc...........
Rant over, I have no idea what I just said but hopefully you guys understand what I am trying to say
Well said Sir.... Well said!!!
02-25-2009, 07:12 AM
#3
CA
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: I am the Captain now...
Posts: 1,006
I think we have someone who can replace Prater!!!! 
Great post though, Saab! Couldn't agree with you more. Not to say there aren't any great pilots out there, but there's that few that slip through the cracks and leave you thinking "What the hell???". The golden age is over- we're just glorified bus drivers, and it's our own damn fault.
Great post though, Saab! Couldn't agree with you more. Not to say there aren't any great pilots out there, but there's that few that slip through the cracks and leave you thinking "What the hell???". The golden age is over- we're just glorified bus drivers, and it's our own damn fault.
Last edited by CL65driver; 02-25-2009 at 07:42 AM.
02-25-2009, 07:18 AM
#5
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 757, Overhead Bin
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by SAABaroowski
the difference between now and years ago is when Airline Pilots started their careers there was no ALL ATP, no Gulfstream Airlines etc..............it was much harder to get into the airlines than it was this past summer, and usually the ones who had experience hailed from the Military, and lets not kid ourselves THERE IS NO BETTER TRAINING THAN UNCLE SAM'S when it comes to flying airplanes!!!!!!!!!!!!
However to play devils advocate there was a time when they put ads in the paper and scraped Pilots off the street with PPL to fly 747's, albeit F/E but I dunno exactly how it went.
The point is the type of person in this profession as changed dramatically. I have flown with guys that are so afraid of EVERYTHING, the FAA, ATC, the Company, the Gate Agent, the F/A, they are basically afraid to make their own decisions and it cripples them as Pilots, as well as CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS. Back in the day it was a "Man's Man", you know the type, the grisly Brown Liqueur drinking type of guy that ran the show, didn't take any Sh*t from anyone, could fly an airplane with one wing etc......(much like a lot of Old school Delta,NWA, United, American, TWA etc.......)now its some quasi yuppie nerd who grew up playing Flight Sim, happy with low pay because his parents set him/her up nicely.
Some of you guys may even know him, but when I instructed I worked for Rich Greene, out of Caldwell, NJ (Century) he retired like #14 at American in 2002, he was an Airbus CA, he was very rough around the edges but he knew more about aviation and flying then anyone I ever met, he rubbed people the wrong way, and multiple times people stormed out of his flight school saying he was nuts) but in my mind he was the epitome of an airline pilot, he was kinda rude, insensitive but told you how it was and was in complete control at all times, and would never be told what to do by a Gate agent, but still professional......sorta
The profession has not only lost its pay, and glamor, it is losing good pilots, it is the culmination of our society as a whole, trying to be politically correct, too afraid to speak the truth etc...........
Rant over, I have no idea what I just said but hopefully you guys understand what I am trying to say
However to play devils advocate there was a time when they put ads in the paper and scraped Pilots off the street with PPL to fly 747's, albeit F/E but I dunno exactly how it went.
The point is the type of person in this profession as changed dramatically. I have flown with guys that are so afraid of EVERYTHING, the FAA, ATC, the Company, the Gate Agent, the F/A, they are basically afraid to make their own decisions and it cripples them as Pilots, as well as CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS. Back in the day it was a "Man's Man", you know the type, the grisly Brown Liqueur drinking type of guy that ran the show, didn't take any Sh*t from anyone, could fly an airplane with one wing etc......(much like a lot of Old school Delta,NWA, United, American, TWA etc.......)now its some quasi yuppie nerd who grew up playing Flight Sim, happy with low pay because his parents set him/her up nicely.
Some of you guys may even know him, but when I instructed I worked for Rich Greene, out of Caldwell, NJ (Century) he retired like #14 at American in 2002, he was an Airbus CA, he was very rough around the edges but he knew more about aviation and flying then anyone I ever met, he rubbed people the wrong way, and multiple times people stormed out of his flight school saying he was nuts) but in my mind he was the epitome of an airline pilot, he was kinda rude, insensitive but told you how it was and was in complete control at all times, and would never be told what to do by a Gate agent, but still professional......sorta
The profession has not only lost its pay, and glamor, it is losing good pilots, it is the culmination of our society as a whole, trying to be politically correct, too afraid to speak the truth etc...........
Rant over, I have no idea what I just said but hopefully you guys understand what I am trying to say
I agree SAAB, with this attitude and lack of spine and foresight - welcome home to one of the least favorable jobs around!
02-25-2009, 07:18 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 443
However to play devils advocate there was a time when they put ads in the paper and scraped Pilots off the street with PPL to fly 747's, albeit F/E but I dunno exactly how it went.
The individuals we seek must be at least 21 years old, high school graduates, and have the legal right to employment in the United States. In addition they must possess:
350 hours of flight experience in a fixed-wing aircraft as command pilot or copilot.
FAA commercial pilot certificate (ASEL or AMEL) with instrument rating.
Second-class FAA medical certificate with the ability to obtain first-class certification.
Height sufficient to operate all controls in our aircraft, as well as a proportionate weight.
Prior to receiving a job offer, candidates must possess a FAA flight-engineer certificate or have passed the FAA flight-engineer written examination (FEB and FEJ or FEX) that would be in effect when empolyment commences.
02-25-2009, 07:27 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,258
Originally Posted by SAABaroowski
the difference between now and years ago is when Airline Pilots started their careers there was no ALL ATP, no Gulfstream Airlines etc..............it was much harder to get into the airlines than it was this past summer, and usually the ones who had experience hailed from the Military, and lets not kid ourselves THERE IS NO BETTER TRAINING THAN UNCLE SAM'S when it comes to flying airplanes!!!!!!!!!!!!
However to play devils advocate there was a time when they put ads in the paper and scraped Pilots off the street with PPL to fly 747's, albeit F/E but I dunno exactly how it went.
The point is the type of person in this profession as changed dramatically. I have flown with guys that are so afraid of EVERYTHING, the FAA, ATC, the Company, the Gate Agent, the F/A, they are basically afraid to make their own decisions and it cripples them as Pilots, as well as CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS. Back in the day it was a "Man's Man", you know the type, the grisly Brown Liqueur drinking type of guy that ran the show, didn't take any Sh*t from anyone, could fly an airplane with one wing etc......(much like a lot of Old school Delta,NWA, United, American, TWA etc.......)now its some quasi yuppie nerd who grew up playing Flight Sim, happy with low pay because his parents set him/her up nicely.
Some of you guys may even know him, but when I instructed I worked for Rich Greene, out of Caldwell, NJ (Century) he retired like #14 at American in 2002, he was an Airbus CA, he was very rough around the edges but he knew more about aviation and flying then anyone I ever met, he rubbed people the wrong way, and multiple times people stormed out of his flight school saying he was nuts) but in my mind he was the epitome of an airline pilot, he was kinda rude, insensitive but told you how it was and was in complete control at all times, and would never be told what to do by a Gate agent, but still professional......sorta
The profession has not only lost its pay, and glamor, it is losing good pilots, it is the culmination of our society as a whole, trying to be politically correct, too afraid to speak the truth etc...........
Rant over, I have no idea what I just said but hopefully you guys understand what I am trying to say
However to play devils advocate there was a time when they put ads in the paper and scraped Pilots off the street with PPL to fly 747's, albeit F/E but I dunno exactly how it went.
The point is the type of person in this profession as changed dramatically. I have flown with guys that are so afraid of EVERYTHING, the FAA, ATC, the Company, the Gate Agent, the F/A, they are basically afraid to make their own decisions and it cripples them as Pilots, as well as CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS. Back in the day it was a "Man's Man", you know the type, the grisly Brown Liqueur drinking type of guy that ran the show, didn't take any Sh*t from anyone, could fly an airplane with one wing etc......(much like a lot of Old school Delta,NWA, United, American, TWA etc.......)now its some quasi yuppie nerd who grew up playing Flight Sim, happy with low pay because his parents set him/her up nicely.
Some of you guys may even know him, but when I instructed I worked for Rich Greene, out of Caldwell, NJ (Century) he retired like #14 at American in 2002, he was an Airbus CA, he was very rough around the edges but he knew more about aviation and flying then anyone I ever met, he rubbed people the wrong way, and multiple times people stormed out of his flight school saying he was nuts) but in my mind he was the epitome of an airline pilot, he was kinda rude, insensitive but told you how it was and was in complete control at all times, and would never be told what to do by a Gate agent, but still professional......sorta
The profession has not only lost its pay, and glamor, it is losing good pilots, it is the culmination of our society as a whole, trying to be politically correct, too afraid to speak the truth etc...........
Rant over, I have no idea what I just said but hopefully you guys understand what I am trying to say
I will say that when I'm up in the left seat the ONLY person I'm even remotely scared of is the FAA ... and I'll explain...
When I'm up in the left seat, I know that I'm in charge of that aircraft and everything that goes on. Whatever happens on my aircraft, I have the mindset that my crew comes first, NOT the passengers. I have been criticized for this viewpoint by many people, but in my opinion, if you don't take care of your crew who the hell is going to take care of the pax?!?! I'm very stern with people when I have to be, and I'll tell it how it is if I get ****ed off about something if someone isn't doing their job. The gate agents don't scare me because in IAD half of them can't speak English anyway, so it really doesn't matter what they say! The ramp agents can kiss my a$$ because 80% of the time we're having to wait on them for EVERYTHING, and more than once now I've chewed out a supervisor who claims that he just got there and didn't know what was going on (to which I responded, so who's been in charge up until now?). I can't count the number of times I have personally got off the plane and helped load bags just to make sure we're out on time. 9L doesn't have a clue what's happening with my aircraft until something goes terribly wrong, so really, unless I REALLY mess up. I have even called my dispatcher to tell them we would be late leaving the gate for reason "A" and had to tell another one because mine was busy ... only to have my dispatcher call up 5 minutes later and ask why we were late. My company doesn't scare me. If I **** them off for some reason or another, the worst thing they can do is kick me to the curb. That would definitely suck, don't get me wrong.
The ONLY people I'm afraid of is the FAA. They are the ONLY people on this planet that can not just fire me, but completely revoke my license to fly. Take away my career forever. So, I'll be brutally honest with everyone I work with when I need to be, and I'll light a fire under people's a$$'s when the time calls, but no matter what happens, I do my job correctly and accurately so that the only people I fear, never have to come up and say "thanks for playing, goodbye".
I agree with you on everything you said Saab. I can only hope that the pilots we have today haven't lost their touch on being in control and being able to put their foot down! That's what it takes sometimes.
02-25-2009, 07:28 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: FIRE ALPA
Posts: 3,082
I'd say tell the union, management and government to all pound sand and have a walk out. They can't follow their own rules, why should we follow them?
But then again nobody listens to me anymore so......
But then again nobody listens to me anymore so......
02-25-2009, 07:33 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 226
Originally Posted by SAABaroowski
the difference between now and years ago is when Airline Pilots started their careers there was no ALL ATP, no Gulfstream Airlines etc..............it was much harder to get into the airlines than it was this past summer, and usually the ones who had experience hailed from the Military, and lets not kid ourselves THERE IS NO BETTER TRAINING THAN UNCLE SAM'S when it comes to flying airplanes!!!!!!!!!!!!
However to play devils advocate there was a time when they put ads in the paper and scraped Pilots off the street with PPL to fly 747's, albeit F/E but I dunno exactly how it went.
The point is the type of person in this profession as changed dramatically. I have flown with guys that are so afraid of EVERYTHING, the FAA, ATC, the Company, the Gate Agent, the F/A, they are basically afraid to make their own decisions and it cripples them as Pilots, as well as CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS. Back in the day it was a "Man's Man", you know the type, the grisly Brown Liqueur drinking type of guy that ran the show, didn't take any Sh*t from anyone, could fly an airplane with one wing etc......(much like a lot of Old school Delta,NWA, United, American, TWA etc.......)now its some quasi yuppie nerd who grew up playing Flight Sim, happy with low pay because his parents set him/her up nicely.
Some of you guys may even know him, but when I instructed I worked for Rich Greene, out of Caldwell, NJ (Century) he retired like #14 at American in 2002, he was an Airbus CA, he was very rough around the edges but he knew more about aviation and flying then anyone I ever met, he rubbed people the wrong way, and multiple times people stormed out of his flight school saying he was nuts) but in my mind he was the epitome of an airline pilot, he was kinda rude, insensitive but told you how it was and was in complete control at all times, and would never be told what to do by a Gate agent, but still professional......sorta
The profession has not only lost its pay, and glamor, it is losing good pilots, it is the culmination of our society as a whole, trying to be politically correct, too afraid to speak the truth etc...........
Rant over, I have no idea what I just said but hopefully you guys understand what I am trying to say
However to play devils advocate there was a time when they put ads in the paper and scraped Pilots off the street with PPL to fly 747's, albeit F/E but I dunno exactly how it went.
The point is the type of person in this profession as changed dramatically. I have flown with guys that are so afraid of EVERYTHING, the FAA, ATC, the Company, the Gate Agent, the F/A, they are basically afraid to make their own decisions and it cripples them as Pilots, as well as CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS. Back in the day it was a "Man's Man", you know the type, the grisly Brown Liqueur drinking type of guy that ran the show, didn't take any Sh*t from anyone, could fly an airplane with one wing etc......(much like a lot of Old school Delta,NWA, United, American, TWA etc.......)now its some quasi yuppie nerd who grew up playing Flight Sim, happy with low pay because his parents set him/her up nicely.
Some of you guys may even know him, but when I instructed I worked for Rich Greene, out of Caldwell, NJ (Century) he retired like #14 at American in 2002, he was an Airbus CA, he was very rough around the edges but he knew more about aviation and flying then anyone I ever met, he rubbed people the wrong way, and multiple times people stormed out of his flight school saying he was nuts) but in my mind he was the epitome of an airline pilot, he was kinda rude, insensitive but told you how it was and was in complete control at all times, and would never be told what to do by a Gate agent, but still professional......sorta
The profession has not only lost its pay, and glamor, it is losing good pilots, it is the culmination of our society as a whole, trying to be politically correct, too afraid to speak the truth etc...........
Rant over, I have no idea what I just said but hopefully you guys understand what I am trying to say
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