Hey guys, what do you think of us pilots coming together to fight for something that could potentially benefit all of us. If we could get unions to collaborate on this, any pilot with past part 121 airline experience should be able to bump directly to 2nd year pay at any airline they go to.
This way, the real new guys still "pay their dues," but no one has to pay them 2, 3, or even 4 times just because of a furlough. You still lose your seniority and everything else, but you'd skip the crappy year 1 pay.
I think that this is a fair intermediate between what we have now, and a master seniority list.
Hey guys, what do you think of us pilots coming together to fight for something that could potentially benefit all of us. If we could get unions to collaborate on this, any pilot with past part 121 airline experience should be able to bump directly to 2nd year pay at any airline they go to.
This way, the real new guys still "pay their dues," but no one has to pay them 2, 3, or even 4 times just because of a furlough. You still lose your seniority and everything else, but you'd skip the crappy year 1 pay.
I think that this is a fair intermediate between what we have now, and a master seniority list.
this would probably make airlines (regional/feeder) less likely to hire people with prior 121 time. so for those furloughed from carrier A it would become harder for them to land a job at carrier B
Great in theory, but the execution and enforcement of such an idea would prove to be difficult across different airlines/unions/pilot groups. It becomes doubly so difficult when your airline is growing and you, as a 10 month FO still on probation at your first airline job, have somebody hired junior to you, doing the same job you do, making more than you do simply because they jumped ship from their previous job. The emotions alone caused by such a policy would create an untenable situation all parties involved.
A better idea would be bargaining to eliminate the concept of probationary pay altogether, compelling airlines to pay a half-ass livable wage the first year (you know, like most every other professional industry). Making this gap between first and second year pay will decrease turnover and therefore training events, which is one reason (excuse) first year pay sucks so bad at many airlines.
$30/hr for an RJ FO in his/her first probationary year wouldn't make or break the financials of ANY airline, but that 25% payraise (assuming an average starting rate of $24/hr) would equate to another $450/mo...actually giving people a fighting chance to support themselves and their families.
...it'd be a step in the right direction...
__________________
"Fat pilots carry less payload." - R.M. Grundman
Great in theory, but the execution and enforcement of such an idea would prove to be difficult across different airlines/unions/pilot groups. It becomes doubly so difficult when your airline is growing and you, as a 10 month FO still on probation at your first airline job, have somebody hired junior to you, doing the same job you do, making more than you do simply because they jumped ship from their previous job. The emotions alone caused by such a policy would create an untenable situation all parties involved.
A better idea would be bargaining to eliminate the concept of probationary pay altogether, compelling airlines to pay a half-ass livable wage the first year (you know, like most every other professional industry). Making this gap between first and second year pay will decrease turnover and therefore training events, which is one reason (excuse) first year pay sucks so bad at many airlines.
$30/hr for an RJ FO in his/her first probationary year wouldn't make or break the financials of ANY airline, but that 25% payraise (assuming an average starting rate of $24/hr) would equate to another $450/mo...actually giving people a fighting chance to support themselves and their families.
...it'd be a step in the right direction...
I agree. You make some very good points. Airline management can afford to pay minimum of $50/hr for first year pay even at regionals. If you look at financial statements of every regionals, you will see they are making money (with the exception of Mesa). If regionals paid at least livable wages first year, they will get more experienced pilots to consider it. Many of my friends with experience will not even consider regionals simply because regional FO first year pay will not pay the bills.
Why not just keep the same pay but pay us by Duty Hour?
I think we should get paid for duty. But iIt would be hard to get there because you would need to concede reduced hourly rates. This would be great for junior folks who do duty-intensive flying, but not good for senior folks who bid highly efficient trips...they would take a pay cut.
The only way to achieve any kind of pay parity is to eliminate tiered payscales. In other words, FO position pays $xx.yy/hour and Captain position pays $yy.xx/hour, and pay is outlined by year in contract. For example, contract is signed in 2008, so 2008 payscales were this, in 2009 they're that, in 2010 they're higher, and then negotiate cost-of-living pay raises after amenable date until the new contract is signed. Basically, take seniority out of equation for pay purposes and maintain it for bidding schedules, vacations, travel bennies, etc.
Our entire industry is really due for a major overhaul, or else it really might go by the way that Sully pointed out in the Congressional hearings.
Why not just keep the same pay but pay us by Duty Hour?
I was pushing this idea a-while back. Some of the pretty boys were afraid it would lead to them getting their hands dirty chucking bags or cleaning the cabin.
Then people started talking rigs etc. problem with that is... rigs are a union tool that must be bargained for and can be subsequently thrown out in a bankruptcy.
1st year pay needs to be thrown out altogether to enable "career portability."
IMO
The problem with skipping first year pay if you have 121 experience is that there are hundreds of 250 hr wonders that don't have this experience. Why would an airline hire you vs them if they had to pay you more. We are just a commodity to them. One kernel of corn is the same as another kernel of corn. A commercial certificate is a commercial certificate no matter how many hours you have.
Basically, it would make getting a job out of furlough impossible.
Similar Threads
Skipping 1st year pay?
Linear Mode
