Regardless of what he was referring to, the "standards for entry" are far from high, I am speaking from first hand experience. Citizenship and 50-60k Euros is pretty much all you need, and a pulse. They will go on to have a paycheck, work rules, and QoL we can only dream of.
It is no lie, I was hired by a major in Europe when I turned 22 years old, I skipped out on going to American Eagle after I finished college and did the CFI thing, and thank god I did.
A lot of my colleagues, got hired with 250 hours CPL .. JAR of course , no type rating , starting pay was 2000-2300 euros a month, were talking about 3300 dollars ... this is in Greece though, pay in other EU countries is much higher, about 1000 dollars more.
I was hired with 600 hours, got a free type rating .. Im making around 4000 dollars a month after taxes (I get paid for 14 months, not 12 months), and I have been flying in Europe for the past year ...
I'd imagine that someone that is so intimate with the European regional market would've posted more details. Where's the guy work? How much is he going to get paid? Does he need to buy an expensive type? What's the QOL?
I dont really know why you are trying to argue. I was just giving information and you are jumping all over me. Anyway, I'll continue 1: Pick whatever airline you like, Lufthansa, swiss, germanwings, condor, lufthansa cityline, croatia air, whatever. 2: about 5k euro/month to start.(thier income tax i believe is 40%ish so that looks somewhat inflated, I'm not overly confident on the tax number tough) 3: type is included in the original price that I already apparently lied about. Also included in the price is JAA frozen ATPL, and any cost for medicals. 4: 10 hour duty day is a regulation in JAR FCL....10 hours, thats check in to check out, including at least 10 hours between end of one duty time and beginning of another. As well as at least 36 consecutive hours of rest in any 7 day period. The culture is different in Europe with regards to employer/employee relations. It is better, I assure you.
I dont really know why you are trying to argue. I was just giving information and you are jumping all over me.
Sorry, that wasn't my intent. Just wanted to hear the facts... It's amazing how often people post 3rd hand DIS-information here. You aren't, that's all I was trying to determine.
So (to the rest of the group here), with these better work rules and better pay - why is foreign cabotage a bad thing? Sounds like it may be quite a step up. What's the catch?
So (to the rest of the group here), with these better work rules and better pay - why is foreign cabotage a bad thing? Sounds like it may be quite a step up. What's the catch?
Because our jobs won't be farmed out to european carriers at $4500 a month... It will be farmed out to the chinese at $450 a month.
First of all, forgive my spelling as English is not my first language. (not to mention dislexy)
A lot of people giving bs info here "I heard from my friend" or "I train them and they go to" this and that dream job..........
I worked for a Commuter Airline in Europe ( I am European) and I am now working for a Regional in the US.
Someone here said. "It takes 50K euros and a pulse to get the JAA CPL"
Nothing can be further from the truth. In most European countries you have to pass 12 theoretical exams to get the "Frozen ATP" that equals the ATP written here and like in the US it is a requirement to have that to get employed at any airline in Europe. (I took my US CPL before my Europeans)
Those 12 ATP exams will take you at least 1 year of hard studies of many hours per day to pass (more normal is 2 years of study) and that after at least a year of intense training and studies to get your Commercial Single-Multi engine instrument airplane.
Most aviation academies in Europe have as a request to start with them that you pass intense medical and psycological evaluations. You have to pay for this and it is about 750 dollars. That is the first step. Then you apply for a student permit from that Country "FAA". You are checked in criminal records, driving records, etc. etc. This is just to start for your private.
Alot of people in Europe do not even get to start as they fail these evaluations or the Student permit.
A First class medical in Europe is at least $400 (some countries $500 to $1000 as the pilot medical is not covered by the tax paid medical services) and they are not easy to pass. The US medical is a joke if you compare them.
Now to the pay at the Regionals in Europe. It is very different from Country to Country and varies also depending on what you are flying.
In many places the pay is even worse than in the US and forget unions as many small Comutter companies in Europe do not belong to any Unions. I am not including all the European Commuter companies from the former Warsawa Union Countries. I believe the situation in Russia, Romania, Bulgaria, Polen, etc is even worse.
I flew t-p SA226 for a Commuter airline within Northen Europe and the starting salary at that company 10 years ago was $1800 a month before taxes. Not only that. They deducted the cost for the (type) training at $300 per month for the first 3 years so the paycheck (1 per month) was $1500 and they would use you to the max (pay was not per hour). No per diem and the treatment was terrible. I had 1 hour drive to the airport and with the gas at $5 the gallon I was working for free. We had no union.
The Mayors did not pay much higher at the time. SAS had $2500 as starting salary for their FO's on the ATR.
Some pilots in the US believes in the BS that everything is so much better in Europe. At the same time a lot of pilots in Europe believes that it is so much better in the US. Neither are right. It all depends on your individual situation and where you find yourself. The spectrum is bigger in Europe.
The Regionals in the US are not as different from each other as they are in Europe. One thing is sure....... you would never get paid 75 hours guarantee like we are in the US and only be used a few hours for that. That situation would never happend in Europe. They would use you to the max or fire you.
At my regional I have not had to do much in a month for the 75 hours guarantee. So you see, it is very different from Regional to Reional in the US also.
When I hear about over worked regional pilots in the US I believe it but it is not my personal situation. Actually I am on the opposite extrem contrast but if you want to see overworked pilots and low paid for that take a tour over to Europe and visit one of the small Commuter Companies.
Dont get me wrong. I do believe we should be paid much, much more both here and in Europe.
Last edited by HermannGraf : 05-24-2009 at 07:19 PM.
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