AirWillie

The 145 LR solves most of the weight problems. Full boat on a two hour flight including the JS is no problem. 0-37k with no step climbing as well.

Lowlevel

Freedom operates the EMB145 LR, so why do they still have w&b problems?

hslightnin

we dont until winter(winter weights) and the weather is crap. 99% of the time its a max landing weight restriction. & Unlike the CRJ the only ballast we need is for ferry flights to get to a min weight.

GoBlue

The LR still has weight problems, the LR2 fixes the problem.

Sniper

I actually talked with both a Mesa ERJ and ExpressJet ERJ CA about this in 2004, and this is what they told me. If my recollection or #'s are wrong, chalk it up to my memory.

1) Freedom uses higher average weights for their passengers. Carriers like ExpressJet actually weighed their passengers and baggage @ one point after the FAA mandated higher weights following the AirMidwest 5481 crash. By taking actual weights, they were able to petition the FAA to use weights based on their 'actual weight' study, and these weights are lower.

2) Freedom counts carry-on bags that go in the bin twice for weight. Passengers weigh 170 (in the summer), which includes their carry-on bag. As we all know, about 1/2 of all carry-on bags don't fit in ERJ bins (or most any other regional bin). Thus, the bags are gate-checked. Any bag put in the cargo bin weighs 30 lbs. Thus a bag that has already been accounted for in the W&B is counted again.

3) ExpressJet has paid for a mod to up their weights, including max landing weight. Freedom hasn't. Thus the planes, though identical from a mechanical standpoint, don't have the same certified max weights.

Again, not sure if these issues are unique to Freedom ERJ's (or even accurate), but they are my recollection as to why Mesa/Freedom ERJ's seem to bump jumpseaters, bags, and passengers more often than some other ERJ operators. The issues are most prevalent on short legs or with an alternate, as I recall, and are certified max landing weight limited.

Feel free to correct me if I'm in the wrong.

dojetdriver

And your memory would be correct, as far as the XJT side goes. However, XJT has done more weight mods since 2004. It was pretty common in 2005-2006 to be limited. Usually about 44-45 people with bags was it. Not much of a problem any more. I've only seen a few where we were restricted to maybe 49 depending on bag count. Many of the short segments we operate on out of our hubs are business travelers with a "gate checked bag" (lower weight for WB purposes) only and not a "standard checked bag", lowering the total cargo weight.

SpiraMirabilis

XJT is serious about their weights, I heard they have special weights for everything. Like a female pilot is put down as less lbs than a male one? Confirm/deny?

dojetdriver

Confirm, the cockpit section of the W/B on the ACARS has selectable M or F, with a corresponding weight difference for ZFW and CG spin.

winglet

Sniper,

You are correct about F8 being DCI and not YV but I don't think you can dismiss the numbers as irrelevant. The numbers reflect that all of the parties involved have similar difficulties in JFK and elsewhere. I was attempting to show how similar the DCI operators were, not how different.

My post was in response to one of the tired "my-airline-is-so-much-better-than-your-airline" posts on this forum. It was my attempt to introduce pot to kettle. Here are probably the best sources of airline comparison for those on this forum who would like to know the facts:

http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/reports/atcr09.htm

http://www.transtats.bts.gov/OT_Dela...elayCause1.asp

If you know of better sources of comparison of DCI operators in JFK during this time period I'd llike to see the numbers.

Thanks,
Winglet