What about company provided crashpads/airport shuttle? Building a pilot dormitory at the airport would cost too much $ and there is very little space to work with.
What about paying a "geographical difference" in your pay, like a normal freaking company? Example: Lowes truck driver starting pay in Philly area- $12 per hour, starting pay in northern NJ $18 per hour. Oh wait, I'm talking about airlines, the same people that are afraid to raise the price of a ticket to a sensible price...don't want to scare off that customer with the stained sweat pants and Molly Hatchet T-Shirt. No, we'll keep pay low and give that fat bastard a JFK-FLL ticket for $39!
I really do NOT understand why, with the conditions offered by Regionals, crewmembers don't take advantage of overseas possibilities. Can they really be worse than what's now on offer in the States? 3 times salaries on offer here, tax-free (both local and US), housing-schooling for kids provided, no commute, better days-off, good travel benefits...why fight these battles with management, when much better terms are on offer elseware? For a "future", which we all know doesn't exist? Answers, please!
And what happens when those foreign carriers have enough national crews trained and no longer need foreigners to crew their a/c ?
Sorry but the grass is not always greener on the other side of the world and one must really think long and hard about making the jump to a foreign carrier.
Sorry for the thread drift .
Fred
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Just doing that voodoo that I do oh so well .
Listen, when you signed up for this job, nothing was hidden from you...You knew exactly what you were getting into, probably long before you even showed up for an interview. I honestly fail to see why the burden of your bad decision making should be placed on someone else's shoulders.
The airline you're working for told you up front how much you'd be making per hour (and, like I said, you probably did research before you went to the interview). They told you their monthly guarantee, training contract, per diem, etc. If you couldn't afford to live off of that, you should not have taken the job. It's as simple as that.
I'm sure your airline keeps their promises, but when I came to Comair in 2003 I didn't know that Mesa, Pinnacle, Shuttle, Chautauqua, etc. were going to be doing 80% of the flying in CVG.
I didn't know that Delta was going to give half our planes away or park them in the desert.
I didn't know that my pay was going to be cut $14,000 a year by a bankruptcy judge.
I didn't know that I would be a reserve FO going into my 7th year.
I didn't know that Delta was going to move most of our operation to JFK.
I must have not been paying attention during the interview.
When I came to Comair in 2003...
There was only one hub - CVG.
There was only one pilot domicile - CVG.
There was only one headquarters - CVG.
So I moved to CVG.
Now Delta wants me in JFnK but they cut our pass priority and flights. I will not devote $400 of my $2800 monthly salary to setting up a second residence in New York City.
Please tell me where my "bad decision making" came into play here?
I prefer hidden idea #3, because #1 and #2 are completely asinine.
Listen, when you signed up for this job, nothing was hidden from you. This wasn't some sort of mystery game where you were strung along and things were told to you piece by piece, bit by bit. You knew exactly what you were getting into, probably long before you even showed up for an interview. I honestly fail to see why the burden of your bad decision making should be placed on someone else's shoulders.
The airline you're working for told you up front how much you'd be making per hour (and, like I said, you probably did research before you went to the interview). They told you their monthly guarantee, training contract, per diem, etc. If you couldn't afford to live off of that, you should not have taken the job. It's as simple as that.
If your financial situation is so backwards that you have to sleep on a filthy drooled on couch in a crew room, wear unwashed wrinkled clothes, and eat out of a lunch pail for X number of days because the per diem you're making needs to go to something other than food, then it's time to reevaluate your life.
I mean, seriously, what's wrong with some of you? You managed to learn multiple aircraft systems, pass multiple checkrides, written exams, etc and yet some of you run around acting like you don't have the brains you were born with.
Wake up, people. Wake the hell up.
(P.S., I'm in no way endorsing the pathetic and disgusting state of the industry.)
What world do you live in? You need to wake up! You must not work for the airline industry or you had too much spiked coolaid
I'm sure your airline keeps their promises, but when I came to Comair in 2003 I didn't know that Mesa, Pinnacle, Shuttle, Chautauqua, etc. were going to be doing 80% of the flying in CVG.
I didn't know that Delta was going to give half our planes away or park them in the desert.
I didn't know that my pay was going to be cut $14,000 a year by a bankruptcy judge.
I didn't know that I would be a reserve FO going into my 7th year.
I didn't know that Delta was going to move most of our operation to JFK.
I must have not been paying attention during the interview.
When I came to Comair in 2003...
There was only one hub - CVG.
There was only one pilot domicile - CVG.
There was only one headquarters - CVG.
So I moved to CVG.
Now Delta wants me in JFnK but they cut our pass priority and flights. I will not devote $400 of my $2800 monthly salary to setting up a second residence in New York City.
Please tell me where my "bad decision making" came into play here?
Not trying to start something, but Comair promised you in the interview that none of that stuff was ever going to happen? I doubt it. You just assumed it wasn't going to change maybe?
Doesn't change the fact that it sucks, and sure being based in JFnK sucks for you, but I think the point the guy was trying to make is that I doubt anyone ever promised you upgrades and a CVG domicile forever - so now you have to make a choice. Stay or go.
IMHO, your bad decision was becoming a pilot if you did not understand the crappy nature of the "job security" that pilot's have. Flame away.
Not trying to start something, but Comair promised you in the interview that none of that stuff was ever going to happen? I doubt it. You just assumed it wasn't going to change maybe?
Actually, if you read the first paragraph again he's saying that I knew all this crap was going to happen when I took the job. Probably before the interview, he says.
So I raised my BS flag, that's all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crustacean
Listen, when you signed up for this job, nothing was hidden from you. This wasn't some sort of mystery game where you were strung along and things were told to you piece by piece, bit by bit. You knew exactly what you were getting into, probably long before you even showed up for an interview. I honestly fail to see why the burden of your bad decision making should be placed on someone else's shoulders.
As far as Comair breaking promises - in 2005 Delta/Comair came to ALPA with an offer that promised us 35 of the new DCI aircraft in exchange for pay cuts. The pilot group voted yes and took the pay cuts but our fleet was reduced anyway. Then in 2006 Delta/Comair 1113'd the pilot group and convinced the judge that pay cuts would allow Comair to grow again. The judge sided with Delta/Comair, we took another concessionary contract, and Delta reduced our fleet even further.
Those of us who start our careers at the regionals had no inkling of the lengths that management would go to in creating phony bankruptcies, reducing fleets, and changing domiciles. It is not a crime, nor naive to believe, when hired by a company that they actually want you there, and have the best interests of the business, their customers, and their employees in mind.
You train, get your ratings, put in your time in good faith, and expect that your employer will treat you well. Not unreasonable, and no company manager or ALPA rep. is at your flight school or at your interview to discouraging you from pursuing flying.
We need to focus our blame not on the pilots, who have absolutely NO control over contracts and working conditions (don't like the wages? ok, we'll reassign your aircraft to brand Y...) but where it belongs:
On the ALPA lawyers (contract administrators) and ALPA reps at the majors who allowed the outsourcing to the regionals. I find it laughable that legacy pilots point the finger at the poor regional schmuck, while they continually grant concessions to "save" their own asses.
"Live to Fight Another Day"....ALPA's motto
Woerth, Prater, Jalmer Johnson, Bruce York at alpa don't live under the concessions they jam down our throats! Pitchforks and torches to alpa natl.!
I live in base so it's basically a moot point for me, but I'd vote for option 1. Also I usually ignore it, but who the heck asked the major pilots to come down off their thrones and tell us. It's the regional forum and we don't need you telling us how we could just make more money. Thanks for the constructive suggestions...... You weren't just born major airline pilots you know, you must have been something else first and probably you made less then. Don't come here and spout how we did it to ourselves, yes I'm sure we're all aware of that, however when someone tells you you'll make X it doesn't really register how little X is until you're living on it. For the record I do just fine on my X, I live in base and I have a fairly cheap lifestyle. Rant over
I'm sure your airline keeps their promises, but when I came to Comair in 2003 I didn't know that Mesa, Pinnacle, Shuttle, Chautauqua, etc. were going to be doing 80% of the flying in CVG.
I didn't know that Delta was going to give half our planes away or park them in the desert.
I didn't know that my pay was going to be cut $14,000 a year by a bankruptcy judge.
I didn't know that I would be a reserve FO going into my 7th year.
I didn't know that Delta was going to move most of our operation to JFK.
I must have not been paying attention during the interview.
When I came to Comair in 2003...
There was only one hub - CVG.
There was only one pilot domicile - CVG.
There was only one headquarters - CVG.
So I moved to CVG.
Now Delta wants me in JFnK but they cut our pass priority and flights. I will not devote $400 of my $2800 monthly salary to setting up a second residence in New York City.
Please tell me where my "bad decision making" came into play here?
Then quit. It's that simple.
Despite all of these things happening to you, doesn't give you the right to show up fatigued because you didn't want to have a crashpad or have a place in base.
I have thought of this before, and I have always wondered why airlines don't get into the hotel business. I mean they spend millions each year, why not start some type of crew quarters like has been mentioned.
#2 would get my vote.
For me, I would actually like to stay at the airport on overnights provided:
There are shuttles (or crew cars) provided by the company to downtown or other areas of interest.
Per Diem is raised.
Company chef provided. Just kidding, sort of.
At least one major airline was a large shareholder in the AmeriSuites Chain in the not so distant past.... they also had their fingers in catering companies as well... They got out of it around 9-11 to focus on their core operations... perosnally, I think they should have expanded into the other frindge aviation areas to help cover their soon to be mega losses.
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Fly The Contract & Nothing More
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