AtlCSIP

I have done about 1300 hours dual given, half in glass (Mostly Cirrus). The students who try to learn in glass GENERALLY are very distracted by all the advanced technology, and in the case of the Cirrus, generally take twice as long, or longer, to finish the private pilot certificate. I won't instruct any more primary students in glass, and I tell them why. They can do the private in a 172 or and Archer, do a Glass transition, and still stuff $10,000 worth of savings in their pocket!

My experience has been that Instrument students do fine with the glass transition, but it is generally not a good idea for the primary student. Just my opinion after watching it for a few years.

FWIW, guys who only have glass time are typically lost in our Navajo and King Air.

nordo

Bingo! I'd just as soon cover up all the gauges until after they learn to fly straight and level competently.

Any primary student should learn by looking out the window, feel the airplane and learn what it feels like, how it behaves etc... there's plenty of time to learn all the rest of it as a student works on more advanced certificates/ratings, but the simple joy of being a VFR pilot is sometimes lost on many of the guys I fly with.

After over 1,000 dual given, I'm not too likely to want to start teaching private students again (but when you're furloughed, beggars etc...). However the good ones are always willing to learn to fly "heads up" before they're willing to try and impress you with how well they can fly a Warrior or 172 like it's Flight Sim.

__________________
You're only as good as your last landing

nigelcobalt

If flight schools cared about students they would get a 'cub-esque' type trainer. Private training you don't need much. Time building, you don't need much. They brain-wash kids into thinking they NEED glass time. What the junk is glass time anyways? Can you make a separate entry in your logbook? FWIW I flew some of the first g1000's years ago before going to the airlines. I thought they were nice, but not really necessary. I actually flew the g1000 for the last 300 hrs or so before starting in a regional turboprop. That was a pretty rude awakening. No moving map, no trend vectors, no display right there with everything on it.

AirWillie

I think what people are trying to say is that new pilots should only be training in /A airplanes. At most DME equipped. Steam or glass it doesn't matter they all say the same thing as far as basic attitude flying, however steam instruments do not provide moving maps for navigation. That is the key thing that gets people on the transition, they have to fly the panel rather than the moving map.

wheresmyplane

I just told you why. I think that schools that stick students in glass from their first flight are just trying to make extra money. Transition them to it later - you know, like, AFTER THEY LEARN TO FLY THE AIRPLANE. When the glass goes out, they'll be lost. It produces the private pilot equivalent of someone who can't figure out a descent without the FMS.

__________________
The tongue of the wise commends knowledge, but the mouths of fools pour out folly....

Std Deviation

The discussion on glass for primary has really addressed only renters. What about the person who buys a brand new C182T (Garmin 1000) to start their flight training? Then does the instrument rating in the same aircraft? This is a big issue lately. I wrote an article on it that appeared in the June 2009 issue of Flight Training Magazine. FWIW, you can read it here:

Published Articles

BoilerUP

There aren't many, if any, newly manufactured trainers today that come with "standard" (dare one say classic) instrumentation.

Of course the price of the average spamcan has skyrocketed as they've gotten all the fancy avionics (a 172S goes for a quarter-mil these days!), and to pay for that extra gee-whiz the schools pass the cost through to the students. As such, the schools aren't making any extra money off fancy airplanes - they're just passing through the increased acquisition cost via a higher per-hour price.

The argument of "is that necessary?" is a valid one, but training fleets of large flight schools & universities get worn out MUCH faster from utilization than your local flight school with a early 70s Skyhawk available for rent...and when they start looking at replacement fleets these schools are faced with the offerings of the OEMs, which offer avionics (glass cockpit) that customers want.

Somebody once said "Situational awareness and positional awareness aren't the same thing", and I agree. I also agree that big displays distract new pilots from LOOKING OUTSIDE THE FREAKING AIRPLANE and that far too many pilots use technology not as the aid it was meant to be, but as a crutch for their own lack of skill & experience.

I don't agree, however, that schools using glass-cockpit airplanes for training are trying to unethically generate more income or are being irresponsible toward their students.

__________________
"Fat pilots carry less payload." - R.M. Grundman

FlyJSH

He can buy whatever he wants, but I'm still gonna cover all the screens until he learns to look outside.

Std Deviation

Agreed. A manilla file folder and double sided sticky tape is a wonderful thing! And cheaper than the plastic covers Sporty's sells for $30 a pop!

FlyJSH

For about 89 cents those soap holders with a zillion little suction cups on each side work just as well

Suction Cup Soap Holder Twin Pack