Im just curious how this has anything to do w/ free speech?
The OP is making a suggestion, I dont see why that is a problem. Someone brought up a precedent of United, what happened there?
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Last edited by slipped : 10-10-2009 at 11:21 AM.
Reason: spelling
Some idiot judge who was in UAL's pocket ruled that a pilot group picking up overtime on their days off to a lesser extent than historically prevalent constituted an illegal industrial action under the RLA. UAL subpoenaed records from the ALPA forum and singled out several individuals who were then deemed the ringleaders. HUGE chilling effect on union communications, combined with the APA '98 sickout fallout.
Back the topic.....before (and if) this thread is closed down because it may/may not be an inappropriate topic for public forum discussion - - - can someone explain to me exactly what OPEN TIME is?
Open time is flight time not covered by a pilot. Can be for whatever reason. Guy calls in sick today, his trip will fall into open time tomorrow till a certain time, then scheduling will assign a reserve pilot to cover it, etc.
Say a guy gets his schedule for the month, then has something happen such as injury, whatever. His trips for the month fall into open time. Again, if nobody picks them up to fly, they will get assigned to a reserve pilot within a certain time of the show time for the trip. Or, during the secondary/fallout/relief/buildup/mix/composite line construction process there was simply more flying due to transition, training, vacation, attrition (when it existed) than there were pilots to staff it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
Is this equivalent of an instructor being unable to fly and then I pick up his flight or a pilot working *overtime* when there are pilots furloughed?
It has to do with the second part of the statement. Which could launch and epic bazillion page thread about the specific practice.
But like Junglebus said, the UAL MEC got their a$$es handed to them for "advocating" it. If I remember correctly, so did the NWA MEC before they went on strike for something similar.
Actually it wasn't even the UAL MEC advocating it. It was a few individuals not within ALPA leadership. The UAL MEC was specifically saying DO pick up open time. The judge ruled them responsible nonetheless for providing the forum and not policing it vigorously enough (ie not gag-ruling their members).
It should be noted that significant open time, the kind that requires a lot of pilots to fly on their days off in order for the schedule to be covered, is generally the result of deliberate undermanning by management, and is quite common after "spite" furloughs like the current furloughs at CO.
Sorry, you're saying UALALPA was saying to pick up open time? What was the reason for that, to try and protect themselves from legal action?
I thought they, along with AA had a rather militant stance on the issue.
I wasn't there, but have been told by UAL pilots that their public stance was not to do anything that could be interpreted as a change to status quo (sickout, not picking up OT, etc).
Open time is flight time not covered by a pilot. Can be for whatever reason. Guy calls in sick today, his trip will fall into open time tomorrow till a certain time, then scheduling will assign a reserve pilot to cover it, etc.
Say a guy gets his schedule for the month, then has something happen such as injury, whatever. His trips for the month fall into open time. Again, if nobody picks them up to fly, they will get assigned to a reserve pilot within a certain time of the show time for the trip. Or, during the secondary/fallout/relief/buildup/mix/composite line construction process there was simply more flying due to transition, training, vacation, attrition (when it existed) than there were pilots to staff it.
It has to do with the second part of the statement. Which could launch and epic bazillion page thread about the specific practice.
But like Junglebus said, the UAL MEC got their a$$es handed to them for "advocating" it. If I remember correctly, so did the NWA MEC before they went on strike for something similar.
Thanks for the explanation DJD.
So...to make it really simple - in the general view of things - picking up open time (especially due to understaffing) is like accepting overtime when your fellow pilots are out of work. If that is the case - I got it!
Except Colgan does not have any pilots on furlough. The OP was simply stating that pilots at Colgan should only pick up open time if they are awarded an additional 3.45 pay per pick up.
Since we do not have anyone on furlough it should be left to the Colgan pilot to decide if the want to push for draft pay. If someone is off and offered 6 hours pay for a day trip let them decide what is best for them and their family.
Pilots on furlough....diferent story. However just not the case here.
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