TurboDog

Some of the operators that use to use the FD on T/O have stopped due to tail strikes during rotation. Sounds crazy I know! There were a ton of really senior guys that would rotate like they were a rocket shooting for the moon and jump into the FD a second after rotation. You know, when you did that in the SIM and the continuous ignition arms. Not sure why these guys were doing this, but they were completely disregarding the 3 degrees per second rotation rate and resulting in tail strikes. I don't know how many.

Tinpusher007

I jumpseated on AWAC recently and saw the F/O set the pitch just before t/o and I found it strange. At XJ, on the 900 now they like us to hit the toga buttons just after pushback so that we will get both "TO" indications in the vert and lat fields without lines through them indicating that we are properly configured for takeoff. Prior to that we would always just hit the togas just before the take off roll and pitch into the FD's. I can't remember if it sets pitch based on whatever speed we have bugged but I do know that the pitch commands do vary with flap setting.

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flyerfly

Air Wisconsin doesn't HAVE to use the FD on anything accept an RNAV SID, STAR or instrument approach. It is not required for T/O. The 10 degrees was implamented to stop over rotation during the initial rotation. Once you hit speed mode you are allowed to pitch above 10 degrees and pitch for a specific speed around V2.

On a V1 cut I'd like to see if anyone can make an airplane climb at 10 degrees.

BlueMoon

Different software on the 700/900. The FD (on the 700/900) varies the pitch target based on the spread between VR and V2 (there was a chart in the FSM that gave you a target pitch attitude based on the spread for when the FD is MEL'ed). It also takes into account an engine failure.

trafly

I've flown half a dozen different jets, part 91 and part 135, and the procedures varied wildly by company, training provider, and aircraft. Some said no FD, some used the FD at 10 degrees or so, some used TOGA, and some had you turn on the FD in ROLL mode and use the SYNC button to "pull up" the bars as you rotated.

Airsupport

Actually there is an AD for all crj 100's and 440's that say the flight director must be off for takeoff. its ad 2008-21-09. FD can not be turned on till in the second segment. Pinnacle doesn't have any 100's but we do have a mix of 440's. This AD came about because of several accidents involving ice and the crj rolling upsidedown after takeoff due to excessive pitching up of the nose.

Also we have to use the autopilot and during all RNAV departures now. When the autopilot is flying the plane it will usually leave the same footprint every time for the same departure. Pretty much no matter how good you are the rnav departure you hand fly will look different on the radar track than the one the autopilot flys. Which also means that every pilot that hand fly's an RNAV departure will have a different footprint on the radar track. The autopilot however will leave a consistent footprint and track that is essential to RNAV seperation.

BoilerUP

How many CRJs rolled upside down after takeoff due to excessive pitch?

I don't think you can really blame the airplane for pilots not ensuring they have a clean wing....

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Airsupport

not sure if the 900 is the same but in the 200 pressing the toga switches resets your FMS position to the runway you have set for takeoff. That is why you press the toga switches on the runway. And since the AD has been implimented we hit the toga switches on the runway then turn the FD off.

FlyJSH

For a lowly prop guy.... why are raw data TOs so taboo (at least until second segment)?

TurboDog

I'm not positive on this, but I think one of the benefits of hitting the TOGA while pulling onto the runway is that it performs an update your GPS location in the FMS. Essentially a runway update in the event that you didn't do it.