I was really hoping most pilots would be very careful about jumping the gun on this and now I bet some will gripe, but all we can say is we got exactly what we asked for, with a few changes courtesy of the lobbies' (AND DONT TELL ME YOU WERE SO NIEVE THAT YOU THOUGHT IT COULDNT HAPPEN) The ATP provision is still in there, its just now they will allow credit for certain flight programs. Basically if you attend Embry Riddle you will now qualify for an ATP at 500 ( or some arbitrary lower number) instead of 1500 hrs, or thats how I read it. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we screwed ourselves. So now we will still have 500 hour pilots in the right seat, but they will now have an ATP instead of a CMEL. That is all we accomplished.........
First off I'm not going to cry foul on the Riddle loophole until we find out just how much credit they're willing to give.
Secondly, it might not be all bad. Even if these students can get hired at a lower time they will have to finish a 4 year degree. Also, Riddle, like the other universities, is no cake walk. Granted we're not getting PhDs in Philosophy here but the drop out rate for university pilots is very high.
Also, keep in mind these pilots have to get through said degree. The big problem today is you can go to All ATP or Gulfstream and be in the saddle in 6 months. Even the fastest trip through Riddle is 4 years. This will help regulate the pilot supply and not create a huge influx of fresh faces the moment airlines start interviewing again.
So even if its as bad as we all thing, the loophole will still do us some good. The percentage of pilots willing to go through the university system and are able to complete it is rather small and even still, they will not be able to rush in the moment times are good. This will be a good thing for us in the long term, I believe.
IFR 135 mins almost ATP. Those guys won't be leaving for a regional FO spot unless pay really comes up
Ram Air Freight is currently not hiring pilots. However, we encourage you to check this page often as our hiring needs may change quickly. Although the hiring window is currently closed, we continue to accept applications from pilots who meet the minimum requirements listed below. To apply, click on the applicaton link towards the bottom of this page. Minimums
Pilots must meet the FAR Part 135.243 flight time requirements for single-pilot IFR, which are:
1,200 Total Time
500 Cross Country (point to point, not necessarily over 50nm)
100 Night
75 IMC or simulated IMC, with 50 in actual flight (i.e., can only count 25 hours of simulator time)
I think the 1500 hr. min is great, however I also think that the classroom b.s. over ours could be a great problem.
What I would propose is the following:
Waive 300 hrs. of those 1500 hrs. to be in an aproved jet transition or airline transition program that includes FTD time in a multi crew training program. I do believe intense training could replace some of those hours, but not all of them off course, like those jet-u or ATP RJ programs did in the past. I think there's a big gap in training between comercial and airline-multi crew flying.
I'm positive that a 1200 hr. pilot with intense jet training could be very valuable.
I strongly suggest you read the bill. Google H.R.3371 and you will find a dozen links to the actual text.
The ATP requirement goes into effect 3 years from the date it is enacted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemhama
So what about the folks who are working as FO's right now, or who are furloughed that dont have the ATP? Is there a grandfather clause in there, or would the company have to pay for the ATP? For instance I have 2600 TT but no ATP (I was supposed to get that when I upgraded, but I got furloughed instead...)
Sounds like you will need to rent a Seminole and take a check ride.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whacker77
I guess pay rates will go up the day after implementation?
In all seriousness, what about people like me who trained in a 141 program that was not part of a university? I have a degree in finance and economics, I'm a commercial/multi/instrument with 1250 hours, and a CFI/CFII/MEI. Will I get credit towards the 1500 thanks to the required ground school that was a mandated part of the 141 curriculum, or am I screwed?
You will have a long time to get that 250 hours and take the check ride.
Always good to the hear "What about me?" questions. The inconveniences of a few individuals certainly outweigh any possible improvements to safety or the industry.
__________________
Fly or monitor, I get paid the same.
I think the 1500 hr. min is great, however I also think that the classroom b.s. over ours could be a great problem.
What I would propose is the following:
Waive 300 hrs. of those 1500 hrs. to be in an aproved jet transition or airline transition program that includes FTD time in a multi crew training program. I do believe intense training could replace some of those hours, but not all of them off course, like those jet-u or ATP RJ programs did in the past. I think there's a big gap in training between comercial and airline-multi crew flying.
I'm positive that a 1200 hr. pilot with intense jet training could be very valuable.
I can see your logic with regards to replacing hours with college credit. However, nothing can teach real world experience outside of flying the real airplane in real conditions. I hate grey areas, and I think it if the requirement is an ATP then it should be nothing less than that.
There isn't going to be a shortage of pilots, just a shortage of qualified pilots willing to work for the given wages. But, there is a simple solution to all of that: airlines would simply have to raise wages to attract the surplus of qualified talent able and willing to go to work.
I think the 1500 hr. min is great, however I also think that the classroom b.s. over ours could be a great problem.
What I would propose is the following:
Waive 300 hrs. of those 1500 hrs. to be in an aproved jet transition or airline transition program that includes FTD time in a multi crew training program. I do believe intense training could replace some of those hours, but not all of them off course, like those jet-u or ATP RJ programs did in the past. I think there's a big gap in training between comercial and airline-multi crew flying.
I'm positive that a 1200 hr. pilot with intense jet training could be very valuable.
That's the way it's probably going to work out. But let's all hope that raising the mins will also raise the salaries. It won't happen for years though with all the back log of qualified pilots but maybe in 5 or 10 years when the pool dries out because of this deal, pay should go up.
Why would salaries increase? Most of you operate under a collective bargaining agreement that your union negotiated and your pilot group agreed to. Just because the hiring requirements have been raised doesn't mean management will go scrambling to bump everyone's pay in order to attract new talent.
If anything, you will see a meager to modest signing bonus, which we already saw a few years ago when Mesa and CHQ were offering a few thousand to typed rated RJ pilots to jump ship after they passed the checkride somewhere else.
Perhaps they would offer free sim time to boost hours like Eagle was doing.
If you guys want to be paid more.. I suggest you have a conversation with your union rep.
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