You are the one that keeps posting about how much you make. All I am saying is that is not the norm. And the other point is that you seem happy about it. You are a 4 or 5th year professional airline pilot that is still making less than a bus driver. Typical argument about decision of pursuing this career as well, we are talking about pay here not whether being a pilot sucks or not.
It is the norm at my airline, and all I'm illustrating is the fact that there is no norm in the industry! It's contingent upon multiple factors, including contract which is quite possibly the most important. I am a 5-6 year professional making less than a bus driver, but it's not by choice. You really do seem very unhappy, again, I'm sure you know by now that this career has ups and downs, and it's all about timing....a good contract fills in the gaps.
Best of luck.
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Last edited by goaround2000 : 10-16-2009 at 07:02 PM.
................ get a degree and to actually go to a field where you start at 45K first year and have a reasonable career and monetary compensation till you retire. What a joke. Don't you just hate it when RJ FOs are happy with 40k and 15 days off(gone half the year) when you hear of your college buddies making 70K putting up Mercedes car payments their first year for rearranging files in an office 5 days a week while staying home every night?
I'm not sure what country you currently live in, but here in the United States there are 50 to hundreds of job applicants for every $45,000/year job, let alone $70K ones. Unemployment among those skilled with 5-20 years in their fields is at an all time high and college grads strolling out into the work force via a Mercedes dealership is pure fantasy. A few perhaps, but VERY few.
I think your view of practical reality is a bit skewed toward the wishful side.
Pilot pay is the worst ever. I don't care about 40-45 even 50 is not enough the fact that to make that much as a RJ FO you need to wheel and deal work the contract is crap. To do that your still away from home for 80-90hrs a week for 20hrs of pay even if you live in base. Do the math 12-15hrs days for less than 8hrs of pay(per deim adds up to almost nothing) are more common than not. I have always said for the job that we do 60grand is not alot to ask it should be starting salay maybe a solid 40-45 for a probation yr. On 60grand a person can have a decent living maybe even a toy or two. I put 100% into the job I do each and every day as do my coworkers. We should be paid a liveable wage that should include cost of living increase, location pay, and should be able to write off almost anything.
RJ pay is the reason I go by The Poor Pilot.
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All my buddies who are expressjet employees LOVED it (ok, minus one friend who isn't happy anywhere). But, as far as QOL, pay, workrules, they were all overly impressed with the way expressjet ran it's shop...until they were furloughed. Got off the phone a couple hours ago w/ one friend who is facing a second furlough from his interim airline (Mesaba), and another friend who's biding his time at Compass. Both of them would go back to Expressjet in a heartbeat if a recall came around, but in the mean time, you've still gotta put food on the table.
In the current recession, with the high levels of joblessness, it probably isn't uncommon to find pilots out of work too. When i consider the number of individuals i know who are without work, i feel very grateful to have a job. What interests me, is what will happen as the recession ends, job numbers pick up, and people start getting recalled...Those who couldn't find work will run back in droves, those who found other work and are making better salaries, etc. may not come back. But even when we're (i.e. airline pilots) struggling to get better wages, I can imagine a bunch of 1500 hr CFI's scrambling at the chance to get that $19,000/yr job.
I do wonder if ATP is going to have issues coming up with the 0-hero programs however?
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While this may look good, people have to take into account that XJT has furloughed hundreds of pilots meaning this is a senior FO that's been through ups and downs. The higher pay for regional pilots means more than likely that you are a lifer. This is not the norm. Most FOs do not make 50K at a regional probably even if they top out. Another point is that the objective of this game is to get paid the most and fly as little. What good is getting top pay if you have no life flying all month?
My previous employer, I did 50K my last year as an FO. NO open time pickup, didn't even fly 700 hours for the year. The contract simply had that much exploitable soft time in it.
At XJT, getting 50K would simply be too much work, I value my time off too much for that. I bid my commutable line and fly it.
And for the record, I have NO interest in being a lifer. Didn't at my previous company, don't at the current one either.
What do you mean by that bad? What is your standard? If you live in rural Misssisispi then it's not bad. The majority of RJ FOs pilots that you see, black berry sporting or not, make around 30-35k. The CAs make about 50-60K. The FOs are all in poverty, they scrape by living in parents basement, sharing a room, etc. Some have saved enough so that they can actually have some kind of a life. The CAs do OK though 60,000 is barely enough for a family unless you live a simple life. etc. The point of it all is the compensation vs the job. For the ammount of sacrifice we all put into the job like being gone about 60-80% of the year though non consecutively still adds up. When you add all the hard things associated with the job it's definitely not worth what we're being paid and it certainly not worth the view at 40K that is why so many are leaving the airlines.
Nicely put.
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We need to unite as pilots and stop this bickering, fight the good fight.
when you hear of your college buddies making 70K putting up Mercedes car payments their first year for rearranging files in an office 5 days a week while staying home every night?
Ooohh. That sounds like something I wanna do til I retire Remember this kids... Money isn't everything. Health and HAPPINESS IS!
Just some random thoughts: Even with a salary in the mid 30's, there is no excuse not to live decently, contributing 15% to your retirement. The remainder of your take home after paying fixed expenses should be thrown into additional savings. The key is living within your means.
As a single FO (avoid getting married unless it actually improves your financial situation) who may be moving around frequently due to displacements or what not, it is probably wiser to rent. Live in domicile, which reduces your stress enormously. Talk to other pilots and learn the nuances of your contract that will allow you to maximize your pay. Pickup dropped trips. Go on craigslist and find a nice home, someone who needs help to prevent foreclosure. Even in an expensive area, you can live cheaply in a nice area and have access to everything that homeowner paid out the nose for. Bring food for the road, but go out with the crew at least once on a four day trip and have fun. Snag whatever the hotel may leave out. Quit the cigs and caffeine, which is nothing more than mainlining cash (HUGE amounts) into those bloodsucker's coffers.
On your next four day, keep ALL receipts. You might be surprised at how much you spend; now multiply that by four! All this may suck at times, but remember, it's not forever. Make a game out of it, see how little you can spend. Read Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey. As a young guy or gal with a modest income, you can easily retire a millionaire by living debt free. A luxury, once sampled, becomes a necessity...
Last edited by chignutsak : 10-16-2009 at 11:43 PM.
I've made it to greener pastures but could show you my social security statement that I get each year and it averages 40K per year since I graduated college 20 years ago. That was years of CFI, charter, commuter, airline and misc. I am now looking at a second potential furlough (still in my first furlough from 2002). Look to the "golden" carrot but make the best of where you are at right now, you could be there for a while. Times are tough but I don't know if I could do it again in this environment. At least I was looking at moving up the ladder; now it looks tougher than ever to move up for you all at the commuter level. The ladder is broken for a few years.
I take my experience (9000 hours) and will start over with the lowest pay scale at whatever commuter is hiring? I don't think so. I'd rather farm for a while.....
We (pilots) need to take some back that we've lost since 9/11. Sully is a great start, this HR bill is another, more labor friendly administration. Step by step, little by little. Talk to your union, ALPA national (or start a new union). Unions at mainline have to start a dialog with their affiliates instead of divide and concur. Help make it happen.
A friend of mine told me shortly after training at my airline that he had close to a thousand dollars per month in student loan payments. First year pay at my airline, which was considered a better paying airline, averaged $1,600/month. What do you think?... sounds really bad to me.
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Remember this kids... Money isn't everything. Health and HAPPINESS IS!
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