How far out are we talking here? 30 miles out going to 180? Absent unique situations, thats completely unnecessary and screams inability to manage energy and just taking the easy way out.
You take pilots who don't have to know about energy management, descent profiles, speed requirements, etc in their previous life flying 172s, stick them in an RJ without teaching them anything about it and they're going to do one of two things: fly 250 to the marker because they think they can pull it off and have no clue why they shouldn't do this -or- slow to 180kts 30nm out because they have been bitten by the previous situation a few times and can't figure out how to plan appropriately.... and in both situations, they're in a bubble totally oblivious to how what they're doing affects everyone else.
Though they're doing this and I see it every day, I don't blame them. Take pilots who aren't qualified or experienced enough for the jet and put them in the front end with completely inadequate training and this is what you get.
Didn't know it was 30 out, that is a bit far unless it is a speed restriction.
ATC is prohibited from assigning a speed of less than 210 greater than 20 nm from the field, then 170 or greater (turbojet aircraft, see FAA Order 7110.65)
Some pilots have an epiphany in their careers, and realize that they are paid by the hour. When discovering this phenomenon, rookie paycheck builders take it a little too far, and try to milk their flight for every precious minute. Soon these pilots in question will get talked to by ATC, and will learn to advise ATC of their desire to fly slow. ATC will then say "sure, no problem", or they will say something along the lines of lines of "maintain 250 knots for spacing". I have no problem with people going slow, but put a little thought into it first. Climbing out of a major airport on an RNAV departure at 210 knots is stupid. The guy behind you is going to eat you up, and you will just screw up spacing everywhere. Same with arriving at a major airport. Go at a a normal pace until told to slow, or you NEED to slow to manage your aircraft's energy.
Give them a year, they will figure it out. Block or better is new to them.
ATC is prohibited from assigning a speed of less than 210 greater than 20 nm from the field, then 170 or greater (turbojet aircraft, see FAA Order 7110.65)
How far out are we talking here? 30 miles out going to 180? Absent unique situations, thats completely unnecessary and screams inability to manage energy and just taking the easy way out.
You take pilots who don't have to know about energy management, descent profiles, speed requirements, etc in their previous life flying 172s, stick them in an RJ without teaching them anything about it and they're going to do one of two things: fly 250 to the marker because they think they can pull it off and have no clue why they shouldn't do this -or- slow to 180kts 30nm out because they have been bitten by the previous situation a few times and can't figure out how to plan appropriately.... and in both situations, they're in a bubble totally oblivious to how what they're doing affects everyone else.
Though they're doing this and I see it every day, I don't blame them. Take pilots who aren't qualified or experienced enough for the jet and put them in the front end with completely inadequate training and this is what you get.
pretty common in alot of major airports such as JFK, ATL
Is there a new company policy of slowing significantly below 250kts (like 180?) when below 10,000?
Apparently some guys are doing that, and not telling ATC.
No company policy regarding slowing as you mention. As for the jab at our low time pilots, everyone we have left on the list has been here roughly 2 years; I think they have the hang of it, and likely have 2000+ hours.
If your referring to this happening in DEN (I know you used to work for SKW), the dash-8 (primary Mesa airframe in DEN) has a max rough air airspeed of 180 KTS, this limitation coming from DeHavilland. Since its rough in DEN 8 times out of 10, you hear a lot of our guys slowing to 180.
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