I think they will be able to use the threat of BK to restructure all kinds of deals with suppliers, etc.
The MAG fight with DAL has nothing to do with performance. It is hard-nosed business and nothing more.
I know that lots of folks at the "good regionals" like to think that they are at the top of the profession and industry because they provide such a superior product, have such mad skills, or look so sharp in their uniforms. I think that most of this is eyewash. I do not think the average customer has the first idea about whether the tube in which they just crawled inside says "Operated by Express Jet/Skywest/Mesaba" or whatever in a small font by the door.
The passengers don't notice much at all, but they are "Passengers" not "Customers". In regional-land the "Customers" are the majors who provide our income. To some degree they do care about the trappings of professionalism, and even have auditors whose job is to ride regionals and grade those sorts of things.
But when I say performance I'm talking about what our major partners REALLY care about: Completion, D-0, A-14. And little things like $100 million for engine rebuilds that got "misplaced"...
Don't know what kind of work you were in before aviation, but mesa is not just a "bad regional" but rather a "bad company". They pay significantly less for the same job, treat their employees like crap, and don't respect their basic dignity.
My experience with a "good" regional is that they pay me 40% more (hourly and bonus), treat me with respect, and will almost always make changes favorable to employees if the benefit outweighs the cost (ie win-win). Is it all wonderful and Rosy? Not by a long shot...but I'm not in a constant state of anger and resentment.
Mesa would literally cut off its own nose to spite its face. I guess some people are comfortable living under those conditions but I certainly wasn't.
Mesa would literally cut off its own nose to spite its face. I guess some people are comfortable living under those conditions but I certainly wasn't.
We have had this discussion before, probably to the nausea of everyone else. You were in a situation you hated, and you left. Bravo. However you seem to be unable to avoid directing some scorn at people who either still work at your old company, or have come along since you left. We all order priorities differently. People today do not have the option of leaving, unless they do not have to work at all. You are happy you left Mesa for SKW; Even furloughed, I am happy to have chosen Mesa over SKW. I would never give any employer the power to determine how I feel about myself and my profession.
The undertone I detect from you and others is that you somehow feel that you are at the vanguard, protecting and improving our profession while the "bad regional" pilots are bringing us down. I do not accept this paradigm. All regionals are flying equipment of the size and speed majors used to fly. All regionals are flying routes majors used to fly. All of their pilots are doing it for far less in real dollars. You and the other "good regional" pilots are not working class heroes in my book. We are all bottom-feeders.
I tweak the noses of SKW pilots, at least the kool-aid saturated ones because I root for underdogs. SKW is undoubtedly a good and well run company. High loyalty and morale do not occur by accident. One thing that I do not quite get; It seems as if SOME SKW pilots cannot feel good about themselves and their company without running down pilots at other companies. I do not detect this vibe at SWA. The SWA vibe seems to be, "we're doing great and I feel greatful to be here." For SOME SKW pilots, the vibe seems to be, "we doing great, you're not, and you suck."
The Dash Whisperer
Last edited by TheDashRocks : 11-05-2009 at 11:01 AM.
Reason: speling
We have had this discussion before, probably to the nausea of everyone else. You were in a situation you hated, and you left. Bravo. However you seem to be unable to avoid directing some scorn at people who either still work at your old company, or have come along since you left. We all order priorities differently. People today do not have the option of leaving, unless they do not have to work at all. You are happy you left Mesa for SKW; Even furloughed, I am happy to have chosen Mesa over SKW. I would never give any employer the power to determine how I feel about myself and my profession.
The undertone I detect from you and others is that you somehow feel that you are at the vanguard, protecting and improving our profession while the "bad regional" pilots are bringing us down. I do not accept this paradigm. All regionals are flying equipment of the size and speed majors used to fly. All regionals are flying routes majors used to fly. All of their pilots are doing it for far less in real dollars. You and the other "good regional" pilots are not working class heroes in my book. We are all bottom-feeders.
I tweak the noses of SKW pilots, at least the kool-aid saturated ones because I root for underdogs. SKW is undoubtedly a good and well run company. High loyalty and morale do not occur by accident. One thing that I do not quite get; It seems as if SOME SKW pilots cannot feel good about themselves and their company without running down pilots at other companies. I do not detect this vibe at SWA. The SWA vibe seems to be, "we're doing great and I feel greatful to be here." For SOME SKW pilots, the vibe seems to be, "we doing great, you're not, and you suck."
The Dash Whisperer
I was talking about the company, not the pilots.
I had a great time working with many of the mesa pilots. On the other hand I have a level of frustration with some of them because I stuck around longer than I should have on the premise that we were going to "fix it up or burn it down" next time...too many have proven themselves willing to roll over.
If you think your employer has no power over how you feel, you must not have a family. Mesa was perfectly happy to waste days of my time each month having me sit for little or no pay...they are too dis-functional to make an attempt at efficiency, assuming that would even want to.
But there's no point in preaching to guys getting furloughed. When they were hiring I was making an effort to put the word out to potential applicants. If they ever hire again, I'll pick up where I left off. Mesa is bad, bad news and I'm not shy about sharing my experiences. Has nothing to do with SKW, other than to point out that you don't HAVE to abuse your employees to succeed in the regional business.
I think my frame of time has gone to the birds, after 2 furloughs since ACA... I got on in JAN 01 and flew the J41 until the bitter end.
Good grief man, what other companies f'd you after ACA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCLCREW
Wasnt there also something UAL was trying to put in the new contracts about being able to pull something like half of the aircraft in the service agreement??? I remember something like that...
That's what I was getting at with the terms. The ACA management wasn't happy with the terms and the way the agreement was structured.
...I stuck around longer than I should have on the premise that we were going to "fix it up or burn it down" next time...too many have proven themselves willing to roll over.
I do not want this to become too personal or adversarial, mainly because I appreciate the pro-ALPA statements that you have made. I do not feel that the MAG ALPA receives enough credit. They have fought with one of the most hard-nosed and slippery employers out there, and they have achieved gains.
A non-union alter ego carrier was eliminated. If this threat still existed today, the situation faced by all pilots would be even more dire. JO's attempt to start a B737 operation in PHL was defeated. During the staffing crisis at Mesa, the MEC staffed a booth at job fairs to insure that pilot job-seekers had accurate information about life at Mesa. This likely increased pressure on MAG to sign the latest contract which contains significant improvements.
Earlier you mentioned cancelled contracts and alluded to the fact that this occurred because MAG has lower performance than other regionals. The DAL cancellation was based on books cooked by DAL and was copied by moves made by DAL on at least two other regional partners.
Working at Mesa is not as bad as many say. "Good regional" pilots are not as special as some think. We would all be much better off if the energy devoted to run each other down was focused on coming together to improve things for all of us. Let's start by mounting an effort to remove airline workers from the RLA so that we can get from the bargaining table to the picket line much more quickly.
The Dash Whisperer
Last edited by TheDashRocks : 11-06-2009 at 07:01 AM.
Reason: spellling
Exactly Irish, exactly.....and for what it's worth, my foreclosure happens friday at noon, and me and my g/f of 7 years broke up this past weekend...so yes, people are going to lose a lot and already are... was flying worth it? I'd have to say no... time for something else
Not trying to be a dick but you left your old job making 100k a year for this??
I flew with a guy who left a train engineer job making over $80,000 and a guanteed pension to fly for the regionals. He is now furloughed. But in the end I guess you gotta do what you luv. At the cost of everything-
I flew with a guy who left a train engineer job making over $80,000 and a guanteed pension to fly for the regionals. He is now furloughed. But in the end I guess you gotta do what you luv. At the cost of everything-
love dont pay bills.
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