Sad thing is, I bet this thread will be up in 5 years from now. It will still be going on with people saying "it has been like 5 years, when the crap are they going to call me?" Please, no one here take offense to this but it's the truth. Most of the time an airline isn't going to furlough for less than a year.
It's not worth it. There are United guys that have literally spent 5 years on furlough, worked for 8 months then back to furlough for another few years. What other profession do the employees let management do this to them? They should be required to explain how the position is extremely "seasonal" to all first time pilots. It should be stressed that you are only a temp so do not get comfortable. Then people might think twice about spending all that money just to become a temp.
Really the concept of Furlough only exist because of seniority. Also that whole "displace" thing. I always feel bad when someone says they were displaced. Yeah keep on thinking it's ok since it was just a "displacement". You were "DEMOTED". Now go around and tell everyone you got "DEMOTED". That doesn't sound as good.
Management really loves the whole puppet thing. "Hey there mister professional pilot that has worked so hard to get where he is. We have you by the B#$LS because of the seniority system that you implemented. Sorry but you are going to have to take a huge paycut and we are making you move as well as taking all your authority away. Yeah, it really stinks but you have no other choice and I know that."
That is the mentality that we are up against. So getting hired back means that management wins again. You did everything they wanted.
Try June of 08 and still holding out for recall. I am swinging a hammer getting by in the meantime. I do however have some hope soon as my airline is running very thin at the moment with talks of classes soon. Who knows what will happen, to be honest I really could give a flip less. I feel bad for those at the bottom right now getting the shaft due to short staffing. I don't want to come back untill there is movement again. That way I am at the beginning of the wave instead of the ass end.
Roughly 9000 furloughed or laid off 121 and corporate pilots out there. It will be quite a while until everyone is flying again. Plus, all those 2-3 year CFI's who were next in line for jobs are turning into 5+ year CFI's making the line grow even longer.
And still, there are still thousands of flight students nationwide who have enrolled themselves into aviation universities to become career pilots... paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to join this long line of waiting for what used to be a good career. If you are worried about the caliber of intelligence of someone who would still chose this career, and who will eventually become the next generation of pilots, well worry not, they have an endless line to wait in. They will probably never see the profession.
Oh, don't forget they will still have to pay back their massive student loans!
Sad thing is, I bet this thread will be up in 5 years from now. It will still be going on with people saying "it has been like 5 years, when the crap are they going to call me?" Please, no one here take offense to this but it's the truth. Most of the time an airline isn't going to furlough for less than a year.
It's not worth it. There are United guys that have literally spent 5 years on furlough, worked for 8 months then back to furlough for another few years. What other profession do the employees let management do this to them? They should be required to explain how the position is extremely "seasonal" to all first time pilots. It should be stressed that you are only a temp so do not get comfortable. Then people might think twice about spending all that money just to become a temp.
Really the concept of Furlough only exist because of seniority. Also that whole "displace" thing. I always feel bad when someone says they were displaced. Yeah keep on thinking it's ok since it was just a "displacement". You were "DEMOTED". Now go around and tell everyone you got "DEMOTED". That doesn't sound as good.
Management really loves the whole puppet thing. "Hey there mister professional pilot that has worked so hard to get where he is. We have you by the B#$LS because of the seniority system that you implemented. Sorry but you are going to have to take a huge paycut and we are making you move as well as taking all your authority away. Yeah, it really stinks but you have no other choice and I know that."
That is the mentality that we are up against. So getting hired back means that management wins again. You did everything they wanted.
Profound post.
Skyhigh
__________________
Work smart. Work to live. Don't live to work.
Roughly 9000 furloughed or laid off 121 and corporate pilots out there. It will be quite a while until everyone is flying again. Plus, all those 2-3 year CFI's who were next in line for jobs are turning into 5+ year CFI's making the line grow even longer.
And still, there are still thousands of flight students nationwide who have enrolled themselves into aviation universities to become career pilots... paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to join this long line of waiting for what used to be a good career. If you are worried about the caliber of intelligence of someone who would still chose this career, and who will eventually become the next generation of pilots, well worry not, they have an endless line to wait in. They will probably never see the profession.
Oh, don't forget they will still have to pay back their massive student loans!
What???!!!! What about the lie of this impending "pilot shortage?" There is and will never be a pilot shortage. Sure, there were some low-time rookies hired two years ago, but for the most part, it was because the high-time 121 furloughees refused to take the jobs that payed $18,000. There was no shortage. Just a shortage of pilots willing to fly for poverty wages.
If you're in flight school, read this post over and over again.
Sad thing is, I bet this thread will be up in 5 years from now. It will still be going on with people saying "it has been like 5 years, when the crap are they going to call me?" Please, no one here take offense to this but it's the truth. Most of the time an airline isn't going to furlough for less than a year.
It's not worth it..
That's not exactly true for regionals there's been plenty of few month long furloughs in the past and some have already started recalls....... but generally yes, it's going to take years to bring everyone back and that's for airlines that have hope.
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I don't see a pilot shortage...look at how many furloughees are out there right now...not to mention if some of today's regional's (i.e. COMAIR) will even exist much longer. Then get ready for a plethora of qualified pilots
I don't see a pilot shortage...look at how many furloughees are out there right now...not to mention if some of today's regional's (i.e. COMAIR) will even exist much longer. Then get ready for a plethora of qualified pilots
Delta retirees in the 2025 ish range could dam near absorb an entire regional in a single year. Mesa,Comair,TSA,PSA,AW.
little further out then i thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devildog2Pilot
My bad if there is already a thread floating around, but I couldn't find one. Anyway, I'm trying to look down the road a bit and see when the major retirement boom is going to hit with the legacy/major airlines. I keep hearing rediculous numbers from random people in passing so I thought I'd do a little research. Problem is, I only have access to Delta's seniority list. I was hoping some folks could chime in with numbers from other big airlines. So here is what I've got for Delta from the Aug2009 combined seniority list.
It seems like the BIG boom is from 2021- 2024 ranging in the low to high 800's per year.
2012 - 25
2013 - 140
2014 - 228
2015 - 276
2016 - 332
2017 - 338
2018 - 476
2019 - 561
2020 - 650
2021 - 834
2022 - 879
2023 - 836
2024 - 822
2025 - 734
2026 - 632
Thanks
Last edited by hslightnin : 11-02-2009 at 05:39 PM.
Delta retirees in the 2015 ish range could dam near absorb an entire regional in a single year. Mesa,Comair,TSA,PSA,AW.
True, but....this could swing one of two ways at the majors:
1. Actual movement across major seniority lists there by starting the hiring cycle.
2. Majors' managements see this as a way to shed old airframes without purchasing new ones without having to worry about over-staffing. As for the flying they could just farm more of it out.
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