These "dreams" are why people still are still enrolling in flight schools without using common sense, a little research, and doing the math.
There are more than 9000 pilots on furlough, and airlines plain and simple will not hire 9000 over the next several years. What part of this math equation is so difficult to understand?
After you wait in line and flight instruct for 5 years, which is slowly becoming 8 years.... then 10+ years, you will get hired by a regional making pennies for 5 years, but by then you will probably be near your 40's. Most people would say the expense you put into this career is not worth the return FINANCIALLY.
However, it is those kids who have fallen in love so head over heals for flying big airplanes that have lost the common sense to do the proper research, and add up the numbers correctly.
You asked what is up with all the negativity, well your fellow pilots are just being realistic and telling you how it is. If you want to live in a fantasy world thats fine with us.
You should never try to squash someones dreams. He is correct...the numbers suck, but, still 1 in 100 will realize and fufill their dream....who knows you maybe the one.
You should never try to squash someones dreams. He is correct...the numbers suck, but, still 1 in 100 will realize and fufill their dream....who knows you maybe the one.
I honestly feel that things could change drastically in this industry if we ALL came together to make the changes. Doing away with seniority, raising wages, better living conditions, better benefits. We ALL are letting the rich CEO's win. The just pit us against one another to pad their pockets. Do you realize that if we forced the airlines to raise ticket prices by just $2 a ticket and keep them there we could all start out at a salary of $40,000 and retire with wages close to or possibly higher than
pre-9-11??? Then if we forced the CEO's to take a pay cut to a VERY livable $200,000 - $300,000 a year the rest of the money could be put back into the airline to make eveything 1000 times better???? Look at Southwest, they invest back into the company and they have been one of the most successful airlines to date. Now imagine if all airlines did that!!! Sure there would be less airlines but the strong ones would succeed and we all could have our cake and eat it too!!! Just think about it before all the negativity flows from the keyboard. There rant over....
I admire your attitude, I really do.
However, you have no idea how the business world works. This paragraph makes that quite clear.
__________________
My pilot blog: http://www.passionaviator.com
Twitter ID: PassionAviator
These "dreams" are why people still are still enrolling in flight schools without using common sense, a little research, and doing the math.
There are more than 9000 pilots on furlough, and airlines plain and simple will not hire 9000 over the next several years. What part of this math equation is so difficult to understand?
After you wait in line and flight instruct for 5 years, which is slowly becoming 8 years.... then 10+ years, you will get hired by a regional making pennies for 5 years, but by then you will probably be near your 40's. Most people would say the expense you put into this career is not worth the return FINANCIALLY.
However, it is those kids who have fallen in love so head over heals for flying big airplanes that have lost the common sense to do the proper research, and add up the numbers correctly.
You asked what is up with all the negativity, well your fellow pilots are just being realistic and telling you how it is. If you want to live in a fantasy world thats fine with us.
9000 pilots on furlough and 8 years of flight instructing? Right after 9/11 these boards were loaded with thoughts like these and they proved to be untrue then, and they will be untrue in the future. People love to throw out the high furlough numbers. At Allegiant alone we have about 20-30 furloughed TWA, a number of pilots furloughed from Independence Air/ACA, a handful of furloughed Midwest and some furloughed USAir. While they are fuloughed they are also employed now and many probably will never leave. I think every pilot on the list that has a number at American is a captain. If they did leave it would just open up jobs at Allegiant. So that scary 9000 furloughed number is now less. Many of that 9000 are not just sitting around waiting for the original carrier to go back. They are not all in line for the job that you want. Many may have been in the industry longer than you but they will not get the job you want because they don't want a rough commute. Many cannot make a good resume and will never be called by HR. Many will get called and bomb in the interview. Many are simply not hireable because they have bad things on their record. Many will lose their medical while on furlough, some may retire. Some will just simply leave the industry.
After 9/11 and the 1st Gulf War in 1991 many were furloughed and the industry looked horrible. Then within a few years hiring was wide open again. But what about all those RJ pilots with 1000's of hours on PIC time? Won't they get all the jobs at the legacies first? NO. No they won't. They are not all in front of you. This held true during the last hiring boom. Many have multiple kids, lots of bills, wife that doesn't work, credit card debt, mortgage debt, and whatever combo of those things and they will simply never even be able to take any kind of pay cut. Going from $60,000 per year to even $50,000 per year as a first year major airline First Officer is simply not a reality for them. Some are now in their 50's and the move out of the jet regional just doesn't make sense. Some could never handle being a copilot again. Some have DUI's/DWI's/sex harrassment/manslaughter on their records and they could never make it through an interview at another airline. Some know that if they ever became a commuting pilot it would result in instant divorce.
Also consider that not all furloughed pilots are of the same quals. After 9/11 it was allegedly impossible to get a job anywhere with all those qualified furloughed pilots out there. Many were not all that qualified. United and others hired many pilots with total time in the 2000's with zero PIC time. These pilots were not the first ones to get the openings at Jetblue and SWA when they started hiring. Many regional pilots got these slots because they were the ones with the PIC time.
9000 pilots on furlough and 8 years of flight instructing? Right after 9/11 these boards were loaded with thoughts like these and they proved to be untrue then, and they will be untrue in the future. People love to throw out the high furlough numbers. At Allegiant alone we have about 20-30 furloughed TWA, a number of pilots furloughed from Independence Air/ACA, a handful of furloughed Midwest and some furloughed USAir. While they are fuloughed they are also employed now and many probably will never leave. I think every pilot on the list that has a number at American is a captain. If they did leave it would just open up jobs at Allegiant. So that scary 9000 furloughed number is now less. Many of that 9000 are not just sitting around waiting for the original carrier to go back. They are not all in line for the job that you want. Many may have been in the industry longer than you but they will not get the job you want because they don't want a rough commute. Many cannot make a good resume and will never be called by HR. Many will get called and bomb in the interview. Many are simply not hireable because they have bad things on their record. Many will lose their medical while on furlough, some may retire. Some will just simply leave the industry.
After 9/11 and the 1st Gulf War in 1991 many were furloughed and the industry looked horrible. Then within a few years hiring was wide open again. But what about all those RJ pilots with 1000's of hours on PIC time? Won't they get all the jobs at the legacies first? NO. No they won't. They are not all in front of you. This held true during the last hiring boom. Many have multiple kids, lots of bills, wife that doesn't work, credit card debt, mortgage debt, and whatever combo of those things and they will simply never even be able to take any kind of pay cut. Going from $60,000 per year to even $50,000 per year as a first year major airline First Officer is simply not a reality for them. Some are now in their 50's and the move out of the jet regional just doesn't make sense. Some could never handle being a copilot again. Some have DUI's/DWI's/sex harrassment/manslaughter on their records and they could never make it through an interview at another airline. Some know that if they ever became a commuting pilot it would result in instant divorce.
Also consider that not all furloughed pilots are of the same quals. After 9/11 it was allegedly impossible to get a job anywhere with all those qualified furloughed pilots out there. Many were not all that qualified. United and others hired many pilots with total time in the 2000's with zero PIC time. These pilots were not the first ones to get the openings at Jetblue and SWA when they started hiring. Many regional pilots got these slots because they were the ones with the PIC time.
Very good post.
__________________
My pilot blog: http://www.passionaviator.com
Twitter ID: PassionAviator
Who cares?????????? Life goes on, you should work to live, not vice versa. This career has little hope, unless your happy with CHQ 170/190's taking over Domestic flying at such stellar payrates.........
Look around the airports, look at the sloppy, uneducated pilot's that are flying for the regionals, they can't even iron their shirts, you expect them to help turn this industry around?
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In Memory of our Fallen Brother SAABaroowski
Who cares?????????? Life goes on, you should work to live, not vice versa. This career has little hope, unless your happy with CHQ 170/190's taking over Domestic flying at such stellar payrates.........
Look around the airports, look at the sloppy, uneducated pilot's that are flying for the regionals, they can't even iron their shirts, you expect them to help turn this industry around?
Really the concept of Furlough only exist because of seniority. Also that whole "displace" thing. I always feel bad when someone says they were displaced. Yeah keep on thinking it's ok since it was just a "displacement". You were "DEMOTED". Now go around and tell everyone you got "DEMOTED". That doesn't sound as good.
I just flew with a CA on the DC-9 who got "DEMOTED" to 757 FO. But here's the kicker, he's pay protected to DC-9 CA pay. So he's a more senior 757 FO with better QOL making DC-9 CA pay. $140 bucks an hour for 757 FO doesn't seem like too much of a "Demotion" to me.
I just flew with a CA on the DC-9 who got "DEMOTED" to 757 FO. But here's the kicker, he's pay protected to DC-9 CA pay. So he's a more senior 757 FO with better QOL making DC-9 CA pay. $140 bucks an hour for 757 FO doesn't seem like too much of a "Demotion" to me.
maybe not, however look at what the DC-9 NWA CA rates were back in the 90's........
$140/hr (considering inflation) is a fraction of what it should be.
I know you know this but just throwing out there
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In Memory of our Fallen Brother SAABaroowski
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