AZFlyn1

Well said sir!!

Electra

Actually, I have read that 500-some-odd page steaming turd pile you refer to as a contract agreement, and I can also read very well between the lines. Your pilots only come over retaining relative seniority if there is a direct transfer of aircraft between XJT and SkyWest. There is no language pertaining to crew rights if there is an indirect transfer. XJT returns an aircraft to it's lessor, the lessor then leases the aircraft to SkyWest, Bob's your Uncle and SkyWest is +1 aircraft with no requirement to bring over any XJT crews. How many of your aircraft are directly owned by XJT, vs. how many are leased (FROM UNITED, for example)? Moreover, how are you going to protect yourself if XJT decides to sell your airplanes to someone else who leases them back to SkyWest? Your TA has so many inane loopholes it would be funny if it wasn't so sad. I hope your MEC's put it forward as a joke and not as a serious demonstration of their efforts over the last few years... Ya'll can keep that reserve language about your pathetic number of GDO's and being available for contact from scheduling while on an overnight, too, don't worry about us riding your coattails on that! Now please quit trolling our thread, thank you.

Nevets

True, management is playing both. But one side is laying there doing nothing about it while the other negotiates in good faith.

Anyway, just because Skywest is making money doesn't mean we are riding your coat tails. You have very specific language that says you get what we get in scope, health benefits, and matching funds. There is no better example of true coat tail riding than that. As pilots, we operate the aircraft per the FOM that management writes just as you guys do. It's up to management to manage and make profits. Making profits or losses is not riding coat tails. Otherwise, what do you say of the quarter that the XJT side was operationally profitable? Management negotiated the loser CPAs we operate under and that's the real reason why it's been difficult to be profitable. It has nothing to do with one pilot group versus another.

Anyway, what I'm saying may not help but it is the truth. But I don't really care because I've written the Skywest pilot group off because they simply won't engage and rather just watch from the sidelines rather than help solve this whipsaw problem that our management is playing us for. There a saying the if you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.

Trust me, I'm very disappointed in the TA. I'm more disappointed in our MEC for putting it out there. But I've been disappointed in them since they decided not to fight merging all 3 pilot groups 3 years ago. With that said, it is fact that we could not get anything improved in those 3 sections because you guys decided to ride our coat tails in those sections. Inc would never agree to just keeping what we had in those sections because it would cost the whole corporation an extra 3200 pilots worth of costs. In fact, it's a drastic concession in each of those sections and yet, still better than what you have. In fact, this "joke" of a TA as a whole is better than what Skywest pilots currently works under.

Anyway, you don't understand the GDO language. The TA language is actually better but I'm sure you are an expert in pilot contracts and you really do know how immovable days work in our current contract which is what's in the TA. Also, if you actually read the TA (not contract agreement), you would've realized there is a provision to prevent the very thing you are talking about as far as transfers. But like I said, I think that is very unlikely anyway, except for maybe the 59 700/900s in a worst case scenerio. Then 590 pilots would go to Skywest with seniority and longevity. Also, if there are any furloughs and under a bilateral flow agreement, those pilots go over as well. Again, only talking about a worst case scenerio. Now, if aircraft transfer from Skywest to XJT, pilots only go if it's more than 5 aircraft in a rolling 12 months and it starts at aircraft number 5, not the first aircraft transferred. Like I said, people are negotiating on your behalf and against your interest. And you guys don't even know it. What are you going to do about it?

Electra

Wow, internet tough guy, spouting the same junk that you have for years here and on FI. What am I going to do about it? I'm going to go to work, buy coffee and beers for my crews, take care of my passengers, be polite to my gate agents and rampers, and be friendly to XJT crews and every other crew member I encounter. Like I always have. And I'll remember that SkyWest Inc.'s laywers are smarter than your ALPA committee and our management is leery of any backdoor deals (which is why any MESA deal involving DOH seniority mergers was DOA years ago), so "negotiate" away, I'm not staying up late at night worried about getting bumped by an XJT captain, because there is ALWAYS a loophole. Stop worrying about us, we can take care of ourselves, but you guys should be worried; SkyWest Inc. is getting heartburn every time they have a QE call because they have to defend the XJT operation to angry investors.

Nevets

It was an honest question and not meant to be anything other than thought provoking. But thanks for validating my feelings about you guys being a lost cause. And trust me, this place, XJT, is imploding. I'm actually surprised that Inc hasn't fired management over here and just shut this place down. That's what I'm planning on anyway as crappy as this operation has been managed in the last 3 years.

Maybe I made it sound like a bigger deal than it is. But transfer of aircraft is not going to happen with any 50 seaters. The only possibility is the 59 700/900s when XJT implodes. Then those 590 guys will go over with the aircraft and the furloughs go over with a bilateral flow. In actuality, it wouldn't be a huge effect on the Skywest pilots as the 590 would be coming over with their aircraft anyway and the furlough guys will go somewhere near the bottom anyway.

My main point in all this was to point out that your management is making deals on your behalf and our guys are negotiating against your interest and you have had no place on the bargaining table to at last nod in agreement. And yet that is not enough to get you guys to engage? Why wouldn't you want a say in your livelihood? I'm truly confused at your apathy. I don't see this as you guys taking care of yourselves at all. You guys are being had and you either don't know it or don't want to acknowledge it. And here is the problem with it. When you guys hitch your wagon onto our health benefit and matching fund negotiations, it makes management not want to agree to raise those benefits because it's not just going to cost them 4500 pilots. How is that ok with you guys? That's just one example of the coat tail. Do you not see the detriment you are having on the regional pilot industry?

Is offline

Well as most can tell it is a lost cause debating this on an Internet forum. How ever did Skywest negotiate their current policy without expressjet to do it for them, and to end up with a better pay scale to boot?

Guys like you and the reason there is a rip between the groups. You say we are riding your coat tails in negotiating, but how long have you been in negotiations and the current TA is what you have aquired? So to answer your question we will negotiate on our own! Seems to have worked for the last 40 years.

rcfd13

Skywest has a happy non-union pilot group and management wants to keep it that way. If they really negotiate against us behind our backs they would turn us into an unhappy pilot group.

If it truly is bad for me what can I really do about it? I don't really have a leg to stand on as a junior FO. What I'm probably going to do is exactly what Electra said: continue to do my job, be respectful and try not to burn bridges. If our pilots get screwed they become unhappy and start a union drive. If we don't get screwed then I'll be glad I didn't waste my energy listening to internet trolls.

AZFlyn1

A big +1 on this!!

Nevets

But you aren't really negotiating anything. You are an at-will employee. SAPA doesn't have any leverage to get anything that management wouldn't give you anyway.

And the XJT TA has better compensation and benefits than what management give you guys! You can't argue that deciding to get what XJT gets in matching funds and health benefits doesn't affect the leverage in managements favor in that. Open your eyes. What you get is because of others, not the other way around.

Happy or ignorant? Probably both. Of course management wants to keep it that way! Has it ever occurred to you that is because it prevents you from being compensated and protected better? Our own CEO, president, COO and EVPs all have their own employment contract. Why do you think that is? And why do they fight your right to have one as well?

Not too long ago there were almost 1,000 Skywest pilots that voted for a union. Each one of those was one individual as you are. None of them burned bridges. In fact, I'm sure most of them are in better places now. You don't have to be disrespectful when you are advocating for an employment contact, just as the executives have been respectful. They certainly didn't burn bridges insisting and negotiating their compensation and perks in their contracts.

What I'm telling you is that your pilots are getting screwed. They have been and they are currently screwing you as we speak. I've provided proof that management is at the negotiating table with a third entity agreeing to terms of someone else's employment that could potentially screw you even more in the future! You guys just refuse to see it even when it's right in front of you.


Apathy at work...

buddies8

Skywest has a happy non-union pilot group and management wants to keep it that way. If they really negotiate against us behind our backs they would turn us into an unhappy pilot group.


How would you know the pilot group is unhappy?