BB is the one who opened the religion can. He throws it around all the time, every shareholder meeting, every company memo or email, every time he is on tv...IBT didn't start the talk on religion, they just returned a salvo.
you sir are my hero of the day.
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Im guessing 3662 and DC are the same person. The funny thing about these anti IBT threads is they offer no other options. Im no fan of the IBT, but who is better? ALPA has countless examples of drawn out and dissapointing contract negotiations. There is an inhouse that the company would bankrupt in less than a year. The only other argument is to not have a union. As much as one may hate IBT, the thought of bedford having the freedom to impose his own work rules and wages is downright scary. So bash away and continue to offer nothing constructive.
There are several examples of successful In-House Unions. SWAPA, APA (I'm not too sure of their effectiveness), Delta considering DPA, IPA at UPS and FAPA.
FAPA is a small group of pilots (<700) and we always had a good working relationship with Management. That doesn't mean we rolled over every time, we just tried to negotiate (discuss) a settlement prior to sending the issue to the System Board of Adjustment and Arbitration.
Prior to merging with RAH, I believe we may have lost 1 out of 30 (approximate numbers) SBA's or Arbitration's - mostly because we chose our battles wisely and pursued the issue with all of our resources.
Starting an In-House Union is a bit scary, the first couple of years you don't have a very big bank roll if you get into an expensive battle, but after that you'll have enough money to fund whatever you wish.
I would say it depends on the level of trust that exists between Management and the Pilot group and if there are any expensive issues to be addressed in the near future.
Remember, whatever you choose, it's the pilots - from your company - that choose to become involved that makes all the difference, IBT, ALPA, UTU, etc., are only as good as your own pilots participation.
UTU stepped up BIG for the Lynx pilots considering the amount of dues they collected from the Lynx pilot group. They also have an effective, extremely experienced RLA Attorney.
Our old CEO actually suggested the pilots form a Union, he was tired of a new pay proposal from a pilot or a group of pilots hitting his desk weekly.
BB is the one who opened the religion can. He throws it around all the time, every shareholder meeting, every company memo or email, every time he is on tv...IBT didn't start the talk on religion, they just returned a salvo.
Oh, well then I guess it's, once again, his fault that 357 attacked on that subject.
As 3662forlife said, if Bryan talks about T-Ball, does that mean it's reasonable to picket his kid's games?
Explain it however you wish, it was still an immature, low rent move that doesn't seem to have positively affected your Section 6 negotiations. I would suggest that this tactic might have set your Mediation back a bit. Just my guess.
If the “goal” is to get a TA on the four sections that are open, then you have to ask yourself, “Is what we (357) are doing getting us closer to or further away from that goal?”
If it’s not getting you closer to the goal, it’s probably a bad idea, no matter how satisfying – in the short term – the action may be.
They stayed engaged through the whole process, even when it became apparent that they were't able to keep the pilot group.
I sorta wonder if UTU will ever pursue another airline of any size after the negative cash flow from Lynx. I thought the way they handled the situation showed a great amount of class.
UTU also let us use their main headquarters for 2 (I think, might have been 3 - it's all a blur) of the arbitration sessions, I think for free.
Im guessing 3662 and DC are the same person. The funny thing about these anti IBT threads is they offer no other options. Im no fan of the IBT, but who is better? ALPA has countless examples of drawn out and dissapointing contract negotiations. There is an inhouse that the company would bankrupt in less than a year. The only other argument is to not have a union. As much as one may hate IBT, the thought of bedford having the freedom to impose his own work rules and wages is downright scary. So bash away and continue to offer nothing constructive.
There are several examples of successful In-House Unions. SWAPA, APA (I'm not too sure of their effectiveness), Delta considering DPA, IPA at UPS and FAPA.
FAPA is a small group of pilots (<700) and we always had a good working relationship with Management. That doesn't mean we rolled over every time, we just tried to negotiate (discuss) a settlement prior to sending the issue to the System Board of Adjustment and Arbitration.
Prior to merging with RAH, I believe we may have lost 1 out of 30 (approximate numbers) SBA's or Arbitration's - mostly because we chose our battles wisely and pursued the issue with all of our resources.
Starting an In-House Union is a bit scary, the first couple of years you don't have a very big bank roll if you get into an expensive battle, but after that you'll have enough money to fund whatever you wish.
I would say it depends on the level of trust that exists between Management and the Pilot group and if there are any expensive issues to be addressed in the near future.
Remember, whatever you choose, it's the pilots - from your company - that choose to become involved that makes all the difference, IBT, ALPA, UTU, etc., are only as good as your own pilots participation.
UTU stepped up BIG for the Lynx pilots considering the amount of dues they collected from the Lynx pilot group. They also have an effective, extremely experienced RLA Attorney.
Our old CEO actually suggested the pilots form a Union, he was tired of a new pay proposal from a pilot or a group of pilots hitting his desk weekly.
As much as id love to see an in house union, I dont think it would make it at RAH. For one the membership doesnt make very much which in turn hamstrings the union financially right out of the gate. Bedford would force so many lawsuits etc, the union would be bankrupt before we knew it was here. The Bedford the F9 pilots know is a completely different man from the one we know.
As much as id love to see an in house union, I dont think it would make it at RAH. For one the membership doesnt make very much which in turn hamstrings the union financially right out of the gate. Bedford would force so many lawsuits etc, the union would be bankrupt before we knew it was here. The Bedford the F9 pilots know is a completely different man from the one we know.
I'm sorry, I did not to intend to inferr that RAH should - or could - try to get a different union. Promonting thatis actually leads to being terminated.
A inhouse union for the 3 rah airlines and seperate one for frontier might work. or we could try and see how much money IBT Local 357 has if they left IBT and see if we can make it w/o ibt or trie to form a joint union with frontier piolts (as was talked about priorly).
I'm sorry, I did not to intend to inferr that RAH should - or could - try to get a different union. Promonting thatis actually leads to being terminated.
A inhouse union for the 3 rah airlines and seperate one for frontier might work. or we could try and see how much money IBT Local 357 has if they left IBT and see if we can make it w/o ibt or trie to form a joint union with frontier piolts (as was talked about priorly).
Whats happening is not getting us anywere -
Does anyone have any sugestions?
Why don't you bring this up on the union board. This was openly talked about in 2008 and no one heard a peep from the national. GS was the one who brought up "seditious weasel-ism" back in the day & he's long gone.
If you really care about improving our position, you're going about it the wrong way. That or you're just a troll.
IBT's way of changing the subject as to why they are getting thier clock cleaned at the Bargaining Table? Why the anger? Did the Vatican get in the way of an IBT Trash Pick-up contract/extortion? Seem that the Cardinal of IND is laughing all the way to the bank....IBT 747 is a better example of Clean living? Hmnnn, maybe by IBT standards. Better to admit you are i WAYYYY over your head. BTW any OTHER "major" airline come to the IBT for representation or is Court Room trickery the only way to reign over the "unionized" masses? IBT- the Sunset Union....
Painful questions for sure, now get back to work, BB's IBT-sponsored Indoor basketball court needs a wax job...
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