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Old 05-21-2015, 12:59 PM
  #7991  
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Originally Posted by CBreezy View Post
This is the single most inflammatory thing I've ever heard. Every single person who is new to air carrier ops is going to struggle getting used to the flow. It doesn't matter if you're a military pilot, a corporate pilot, or a CFI. It's a completely different world. Military pilots don't fly into O'hare or JFK. They are too busy getting shot at where there is little to no infrastructure. And anyone who says they are "awful" has no concept of what they are capable of. If anything, most civilian captains I flew with were incompetent and some of the worst "leaders" I've ever seen. They can't express what they want so they just do it themselves. I'd be willing to bet that you think 25 hours of IOE is enough to cover all the bases of every situation you could experience and you shouldn't have to give tips or help out the FO after that because you "aren't getting paid to do that."

Most military pilots could fly circles around 10 year captains at the regionals.
THIS.
Thx, CBreezy.

Dfwflyboy, ESBAM.
Sigh....Google it.
Dismissed.
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Old 05-21-2015, 01:15 PM
  #7992  
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Originally Posted by dfwflyboy View Post
lol I didn't realize military carries 50-76 paying civilian passengers around :P It's easy to not care about 400 hours when you just eject and there's no one to care about besides me, myself, and I.

and XJT hires new FOs from the military (that are just getting recency from us) and the are awful. Most can't talk on the radio....."wait, who is this? Ground? what do I say to them?" "what do I tell ramp now? where am I?"
I think you mean't to put the "lol" at the end of your post, right? Glad to see your type of "Patriotism" as we approach the Memorial Day weekend.

Funny story....We had a pilot at ASA who was originally told he had too little time, 850TT I think (pre-9/11). Pilot recruiter at ASA said "sorry, we're hiring folks with 1200TT, and 200+ME". Of the 850 this guy had, over 400 was as a B1 Commander! Damn good pilot!
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Old 05-21-2015, 10:27 PM
  #7993  
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Originally Posted by dfwflyboy View Post
lol I didn't realize military carries 50-76 paying civilian passengers around :P It's easy to not care about 400 hours when you just eject and there's no one to care about besides me, myself, and I.

and XJT hires new FOs from the military (that are just getting recency from us) and the are awful. Most can't talk on the radio....."wait, who is this? Ground? what do I say to them?" "what do I tell ramp now? where am I?"
No, no, you're right. Single seat fighters can't carry 50-76 people. If only the military had some kind of cargo or tanker aircraft that could carry many times that amount of people, worldwide, in combat conditions, while air refueling. New mil pilots aren't familiar with class B airline ramp environments? Shocking!
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Old 05-21-2015, 10:55 PM
  #7994  
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Originally Posted by dfwflyboy View Post
lol I didn't realize military carries 50-76 paying civilian passengers around :P It's easy to not care about 400 hours when you just eject and there's no one to care about besides me, myself, and I.

and XJT hires new FOs from the military (that are just getting recency from us) and the are awful. Most can't talk on the radio....."wait, who is this? Ground? what do I say to them?" "what do I tell ramp now? where am I?"
I'll bite since you quoted me.

My first flight in the jumpseat of a C17 was on an ocean crossing with 5 helicopters loaded in the back. Roughly $100mil worth of helicopters in a $250mil aircraft. Dude flying had however many hours he had from pilot training (200 maybe?) and only 10 hours in the C17. He had an instructor with a little over 1000 hours of C17 time and I think less than 1500 total time as the aircraft commander. Another flight i was on, with a bunch of soldiers and equipment in the back (still no ejection seats or parachutes by the way) was flown by some other low time (when compared to airline guys) pilots.

Everyone's gotta start somewhere. And their quality of training is a tad bit higher than yours was. You say the military doesn't care about 400 hours because they can eject, insinuating that safety isn't an issue because the good ol ejection seat will save the pilots. The military takes a comprehensive approach to risk mitigation that starts with training. Lots of low time guys fly supersonic jets that require constant hand flying at faster speeds in riskier environments than the 121 world. Memory items for EPs, limits, flows, regulations, etc. are much more strict in the military.

Your characterization and generalization of military pilots being "awful" due to an alleged lack of understanding of ramp/major airport procedures (which took me about 5-10 flights to various big airports in IOE to figure out) shows your ignorance and naivety. The CFIs, and every other pilot new to the 121 world, doesn't have experience with ramp and other 121 specific operations. You didn't know what to say when you started either.

Fortunately, most hiring departments don't think like you do. I'm quite certain as you get more experience in the aviation world, your jealousy-based disdain and lack of respect for mil pilots will go away.

Happy Memorial Day weekend. Drink one for my fallen brothers who were apparently awful pilots while you revel in your awesomeness. Oh, and Chuck Yeager and Bob Hoover are two great examples of more of your awful military pilots.
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Old 05-21-2015, 11:23 PM
  #7995  
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Originally Posted by Pullout View Post
I'm with wt... for the most part.

If this new proposal sucks, which it most likely will, vote no. If it's good, vote yes. (Sucks=Still below industry standard) My second grade teacher taught me a very valuable quote that was along the lines of, "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again."

I'm one of those old crusty downgrade captains (young 30's) that was brought up to fight for what I know is right and what I believe. I've got almost a dozen recs, a bachelors degree, a few thousand hours PIC, volunteer work 4-6 days a month plus a lot more than most have. No call. But I'm sure the young guns that think I and my fellow friends/coworkers in the same boat, will get in as soon as they get that precious PIC. (Please thank your parents for giving a trophy to every kid no matter the result win or loss)

Unless you're at a Skywest INC, a different regional or can check one of two boxes white males can't, you might want to mentally prepare yourself for what's about not to happen to your career. You're not the only one TRULY TRYING to move on. Let's talk in two years and see how you feel at Mesa. Do research on who has left Mesa for a legacy in the past 6 months.

If you're a quitter and the proposal sucks, vote yes for that extra pop tart a year. So many more have sacrificed so much more than we ever could. Goodnight all.







Agree with you and wt, very well stated!
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Old 05-21-2015, 11:36 PM
  #7996  
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Originally Posted by flapshalfspeed View Post
I have never seen a rejected regional TA do anything other than cost the pilot group more money in the long-run, and benefit other pilot groups with less spine. A rejected TA immediately resets the foot-dragging by management teams who are not afraid of the NMB or ALPA at all. How many regionals have been released to self-help within 5-10 years of rejecting a TA? How many legacies have simply shifted around flying when a group rejected marginal increases in pay?

Do you know who benefitted most from Envoy's stand for justice? It wasn't the Envoy pilots, it wasn't all regional pilots, it was PSA & Piedmont. Unless there is a national seniority list, an ALPA national regime bold enough to reject any regional TA that lowers the bar, or an NMB that actually releases regional pilot groups to strike ever, then it is patently stupid to reject any TA. In such a broken, dysfunctional, uncoordinated quagmire of regional pilot groups, rejecting a TA simply incentivizes other pilot groups to take concessions and thus lowers the bar even further!!!

Is Republic back at the table with RAH's union, begging for a second chance to give them a raise? No. How did the Envoy stand for justice work out? It sure as heck didn't end up "raising the bar."

Back up your positions with historical data on the financial and career outcomes of rejected TAs at regional 121 carriers since the 1980s and I'll consider your position. I think you'll see that making a stand at the regional level never works out. Regional feed is, by design, set up to be fragmented and distributed among lowest-bidders, with contract durations on RFPs overlapped to provide maximum "ratchet-down" capability.

Lastly, if you want to devote your backbone and indignation towards something that would actually raise the bar, start a petition of all regional unions to pressure their MECs into a national Memorandum of Understanding--a binding agreement that no MEC of any US 121 airline will ever sign off on a TA with payrates below specified amounts (with inflation adjustments included).

Spend your time and emotions arguing for something that could actually raise the bar. Rejecting a TA at Mesa isn't going to.




So bending over and grabbing your ankles to accept a crap TA will(raise the bar)?
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Old 05-22-2015, 05:44 AM
  #7997  
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Originally Posted by dfwflyboy View Post
lol I didn't realize military carries 50-76 paying civilian passengers around :P It's easy to not care about 400 hours when you just eject and there's no one to care about besides me, myself, and I.

and XJT hires new FOs from the military (that are just getting recency from us) and the are awful. Most can't talk on the radio....."wait, who is this? Ground? what do I say to them?" "what do I tell ramp now? where am I?"
I literally had to wait to get home to my computer because I had to gather my thoughts. First, you are the biggest loser I have ever seen on this forum and that is really saying something. Second, as a military pilot, I flew into more class B airspace in my first 250 hours than most CFI's fly into their entire careers. I have done so at speeds higher than the landing speed of many RJ's, under NVG's that reduce my peripheral vision down to 40 degrees, in a formation of 4, within two rotor disks of each other. Your comment about radio procedures is so ridiculous that I honestly think that you are not even a pilot. What class airspace are most military installations in? Do you think that we just sit out in uncontrolled areas so we don't have to get a clearance before we depart. I am trying to remember what that person is that I talk to every time I need to move to the active. That's right, now I remember, its ground. And who is that person that clears me for take off? Oh that's right, its the tower. You are the perfect example of why our profiles on here should require names. I would honestly pay my way to DFW just to pummel your damn face in. The truth is, you are a weak little nothing that is going to open your mouth and spew your garbage in front of the wrong person and pay for it severely. I only hope that the mods leave this on here long enough for you to read this. In fact, why don't you private message me and lets have this talk just between us. I would be glad to square you away. Why don't your enlighten us as to where you received your high quality training? The way you talk it must have been flying patterns at JFK or perhaps Newark? Its 9:30 in the morning and I am going to get a beer because I cannot let somebody like you kick my weekend off to a bad start.
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Old 05-22-2015, 06:27 AM
  #7998  
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Originally Posted by KYhawkdriver View Post
I literally had to wait to get home to my computer because I had to gather my thoughts. First, you are the biggest loser I have ever seen on this forum and that is really saying something. Second, as a military pilot, I flew into more class B airspace in my first 250 hours than most CFI's fly into their entire careers. I have done so at speeds higher than the landing speed of many RJ's, under NVG's that reduce my peripheral vision down to 40 degrees, in a formation of 4, within two rotor disks of each other. Your comment about radio procedures is so ridiculous that I honestly think that you are not even a pilot. What class airspace are most military installations in? Do you think that we just sit out in uncontrolled areas so we don't have to get a clearance before we depart. I am trying to remember what that person is that I talk to every time I need to move to the active. That's right, now I remember, its ground. And who is that person that clears me for take off? Oh that's right, its the tower. You are the perfect example of why our profiles on here should require names. I would honestly pay my way to DFW just to pummel your damn face in. The truth is, you are a weak little nothing that is going to open your mouth and spew your garbage in front of the wrong person and pay for it severely. I only hope that the mods leave this on here long enough for you to read this. In fact, why don't you private message me and lets have this talk just between us. I would be glad to square you away. Why don't your enlighten us as to where you received your high quality training? The way you talk it must have been flying patterns at JFK or perhaps Newark? Its 9:30 in the morning and I am going to get a beer because I cannot let somebody like you kick my weekend off to a bad start.
You can't let these internet pukes get to you man. Thanks for your service!
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Old 05-22-2015, 06:45 AM
  #7999  
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Originally Posted by dfwflyboy View Post
lol I didn't realize military carries 50-76 paying civilian passengers around :P It's easy to not care about 400 hours when you just eject and there's no one to care about besides me, myself, and I.

and XJT hires new FOs from the military (that are just getting recency from us) and the are awful. Most can't talk on the radio....."wait, who is this? Ground? what do I say to them?" "what do I tell ramp now? where am I?"
Of course we would see a post like this on the Mesa forum. Coming from the worst pilots in the industry.
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Old 05-22-2015, 06:50 AM
  #8000  
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Originally Posted by TheGoldenJet View Post
Of course we would see a post like this on the Mesa forum. Coming from the worst pilots in the industry.
He's not a Mesa pilot as far as I can tell. I think he's at XJET. So you can take that theory and put it where it belongs, and then smartly take your place right next to him.
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