Envoy Information
10-28-2015, 07:03 AM
#1581
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,127
Originally Posted by eaglefly
If AA "hires" 700 pilots next year (a tall order and wildly assumptive due to the unkown number of deferees that elect to return), 75-100 will be from non-Envoy WO's, leaving perhaps a little over 600 to base Envoy's projected flow to AA or a little over 300. Envoy will have outside attrition (which is variable and usually higher in Spring/Summer) and to meet that burden without contracting or stunting the "upgrade factory" you claim, Envoy will need about 35-40 new-hires/month. Each and every month starting now (actually a couple of months ago to "front load" that factory assembly line).
Parker announced hiring of 750, not 700, so again you're mistaken
50% would be 375 next year from Envoy. They can meter to 30 a month which would be 360 for the year; however they have to meet the 50% in the end. So not flowing isn't an option, you're wrong again.
We have about 1,000 CA's and about 300 of them won't flow. That means we are going to flow 1/3 of our Captains in just 1 year. IMHO, This place is about to turn into an upgrade factory. They kept the schoolhouse fully staffed and they kept the sim contracts as if we were still a 3,000 pilot airline. We are overstaffed and starting up a new training program for E175 will not cause a training bubble staffing shortage. The new planes are coming, and we have the fastest flow to AA of all three WO's.
Sure sounds more and more like their 6/2.5 is actually possible.
The pilots will go where the upgrades are reasonable, and the equipment is good. It's been proven already. Sorry it took you a few decades to go to AA; these new kids aren't going to have to deal with any of that.
Originally Posted by eaglefly
I have no doubt Envoy management is proud of you though for steadfastly and tirelessly pack-muling so much of their water, but doing so only subjects many potential Envoy new-hires to future drowning when the sweet nectar you endlessly promise invariably doesn't arrive as claimed as it almost certainly wont for many of them.
10-28-2015, 07:14 AM
#1582
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 299
Originally Posted by eaglefly
If AA "hires" 700 pilots next year (a tall order and wildly assumptive due to the unkown number of deferees that elect to return), 75-100 will be from non-Envoy WO's, leaving perhaps a little over 600 to base Envoy's projected flow to AA or a little over 300. Envoy will have outside attrition (which is variable and usually higher in Spring/Summer) and to meet that burden without contracting or stunting the "upgrade factory" you claim, Envoy will need about 35-40 new-hires/month. Each and every month starting now (actually a couple of months ago to "front load" that factory assembly line).
Has that required burden been met so far or is an increasing deficit in progress ?
I understand your motivations for your obscene level of salesmanship here Mason, but again, I think your claims are overly optimistic and based on best case scenarios with no bumps in the road. Additionally, what happens over the next 18-24 months regarding Envoy flow is an equation involving flushing the remaining 824 (about 400 or so left) and not one of long-term considetation involving non-824 Envoy pilots, let alone new-hires of today. Considering the ripness for Envoy's consolidation or other alteration of Envoy, any "projections" beyond the next 18 months or so are truly a product of Miss Cleo.
I have no doubt Envoy management is proud of you though for steadfastly and tirelessly pack-muling so much of their water, but doing so only subjects many potential Envoy new-hires to future drowning when the sweet nectar you endlessly promise invariably doesn't arrive as claimed as it almost certainly wont for many of them.
Has that required burden been met so far or is an increasing deficit in progress ?
I understand your motivations for your obscene level of salesmanship here Mason, but again, I think your claims are overly optimistic and based on best case scenarios with no bumps in the road. Additionally, what happens over the next 18-24 months regarding Envoy flow is an equation involving flushing the remaining 824 (about 400 or so left) and not one of long-term considetation involving non-824 Envoy pilots, let alone new-hires of today. Considering the ripness for Envoy's consolidation or other alteration of Envoy, any "projections" beyond the next 18 months or so are truly a product of Miss Cleo.
I have no doubt Envoy management is proud of you though for steadfastly and tirelessly pack-muling so much of their water, but doing so only subjects many potential Envoy new-hires to future drowning when the sweet nectar you endlessly promise invariably doesn't arrive as claimed as it almost certainly wont for many of them.
10-28-2015, 07:17 AM
#1583
Does NOT get weekends off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: ERJ - 145
Posts: 1,631
Originally Posted by adspilot
Man you sure do know how to ramble. For those of you that don't want to read the whole thing i'll break it down for you. (Guessing about AA hiring, wondering about envoy hiring, something about how he likes Miss Cleo, insults to Mason, a crossing of fingers in hopes that Envoy fails)
10-28-2015, 07:41 AM
#1584
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,707
as far as envoy is concerned, we still have 7 year F/O's who are within the next vacancy bid eligible to upgrade. other than that, the reserve system su cks, the schedules su ck, commuting is terrible. The 4 hotels per month if needed per pilot IS NOT PERMANENT and will be canceled with a 90 day notification by management, junior manning is at an all time high, every one get the JM call. Did I mention reserve here su cks.
Envoy flying still being handed out to others, LAX, SJU, MIA, NY bases all closed in the last 4 years, yeah this place is waiting to explode, explode with mass exodus to continue right after the holidays are over, because the f/os here are still 5 years away from flowing at best.
Envoy flying still being handed out to others, LAX, SJU, MIA, NY bases all closed in the last 4 years, yeah this place is waiting to explode, explode with mass exodus to continue right after the holidays are over, because the f/os here are still 5 years away from flowing at best.
10-28-2015, 11:05 AM
#1585
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Errplanes
Posts: 367
Originally Posted by buddies8
as far as envoy is concerned, we still have 7 year F/O's who are within the next vacancy bid eligible to upgrade. other than that, the reserve system su cks, the schedules su ck, commuting is terrible. The 4 hotels per month if needed per pilot IS NOT PERMANENT and will be canceled with a 90 day notification by management, junior manning is at an all time high, every one get the JM call. Did I mention reserve here su cks.
Envoy flying still being handed out to others, LAX, SJU, MIA, NY bases all closed in the last 4 years, yeah this place is waiting to explode, explode with mass exodus to continue right after the holidays are over, because the f/os here are still 5 years away from flowing at best.
Envoy flying still being handed out to others, LAX, SJU, MIA, NY bases all closed in the last 4 years, yeah this place is waiting to explode, explode with mass exodus to continue right after the holidays are over, because the f/os here are still 5 years away from flowing at best.
The hotels in base are huge for many of us. No longer have to spend $200+ on crashpads or motel 6's/red roof inns/etc. out of pocket. No longer worry about those cheap hotels filling up on bad weather/high cancellation days and sleeping in the crew room. Many of the hotels they use have free breakfast.
I don't know about you, but I am able to proffer for commutable trips or late reserve reports/early finishes so I almost never commute the day before or day after.
I haven't been turned back or JM'd since last Spring when staffing seemed to be an issue. Lately, most of the flying I've done on reserve is 1 leg - 30 hour layover - 1 leg. For reserve, that is rather ideal, though not for a lineholder.
The numbers of retirements/flow projections are based on objective data. Pending no unforeseen extreme circumstances, we are in a good spot. May be hard to accept that, but things are going to get better.
10-28-2015, 12:26 PM
#1586
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: EMB145 CA
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by Crawl
Understand the frustration. I've been on reserve almost 3 years now, but I can say that compared to my last regional, work rules are still better at envoy.
The hotels in base are huge for many of us. No longer have to spend $200+ on crashpads or motel 6's/red roof inns/etc. out of pocket. No longer worry about those cheap hotels filling up on bad weather/high cancellation days and sleeping in the crew room. Many of the hotels they use have free breakfast.
I don't know about you, but I am able to proffer for commutable trips or late reserve reports/early finishes so I almost never commute the day before or day after.
I haven't been turned back or JM'd since last Spring when staffing seemed to be an issue. Lately, most of the flying I've done on reserve is 1 leg - 30 hour layover - 1 leg. For reserve, that is rather ideal, though not for a lineholder.
The numbers of retirements/flow projections are based on objective data. Pending no unforeseen extreme circumstances, we are in a good spot. May be hard to accept that, but things are going to get better.
The hotels in base are huge for many of us. No longer have to spend $200+ on crashpads or motel 6's/red roof inns/etc. out of pocket. No longer worry about those cheap hotels filling up on bad weather/high cancellation days and sleeping in the crew room. Many of the hotels they use have free breakfast.
I don't know about you, but I am able to proffer for commutable trips or late reserve reports/early finishes so I almost never commute the day before or day after.
I haven't been turned back or JM'd since last Spring when staffing seemed to be an issue. Lately, most of the flying I've done on reserve is 1 leg - 30 hour layover - 1 leg. For reserve, that is rather ideal, though not for a lineholder.
The numbers of retirements/flow projections are based on objective data. Pending no unforeseen extreme circumstances, we are in a good spot. May be hard to accept that, but things are going to get better.
My reserve experience was good until all the flying dried up and CS began pre assigning both 4am and 10 am RAPS for day 1 of a block. Now I commute the day prior every week with the occasional JM on my last day.
As much as I would love to transplant my family and move to base, it will never happen at the rate bases disappear at envoy
10-28-2015, 03:51 PM
#1587
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,127
AA internal hiring page updated last week...
1,500 AA new hires is 750 Envoy flows. That's every CA on our list who wants to flow.
How's 2.5 upgrade & 6 year flow looking now ?
How time flies.
Since our application window opened on Oct. 1, 2013, we’ve collected more than 16,000 pilot applications – and we’ve now completed two years of hiring.
Over that time, we’ve learned some things and we’ve refined our process to make sure we hire not only the most technically skilled pilots, but also pilots that “fit” with and within the American Airlines culture. A lot of time and energy has gone into the development of our pilot recruitment process. You’ll see that technology plays a big role in the initial stages; however, since you are the ones that will fly with these people, we have a group of American pilots that interview the applicants that make it to the final stages of the hiring process, and they have a major voice in the hiring decision.
I’m sure that many of you know pilots interested in applying, so this Recruitment page includes the specifics on the interview process, information about the pilot selection process, instructions on how you can submit references/recommendation letters, and answers to a few common questions.
Now that we’ve got two years of hiring under our belt, I’d like to share some of the hiring differences between the years. View the 2014-2015 Hiring Stats Infographic.
As you can see, flow through agreements and reinstating our recalled pilots are becoming more prevalent in our hiring.
Flow Agreements
For every 500 pilot training slots, 250 or 50 percent are allocated for Envoy flows
For every 500 pilot training slots, 84 slots belong to both Piedmont and PSA
The remaining slots are reserved for recalls and new hires
In 2015, we placed more than 160 recalled pilots on payroll
So, what other factors impact our new hire statistics?
Previous deferrals remain eligible to return to payroll as long as they informed the company as of May 6, 2016
Currently, there are about 900 remaining pilots in a deferral status
A pilot on deferral only needs to give the company a 30-day notice to return to active status.
As we continue to grow, our plan is to bring on more than 1,500 new hire pilots by the end of 2017. It’s exciting bringing on new pilots, and their enthusiasm is contagious. You can feel that enthusiasm whether you’re walking the halls of the Flight Academy or sitting next to them in the cockpit. For all of us it means movement and more opportunity, which is great news for us all.
Captain Kimball Stone
Since our application window opened on Oct. 1, 2013, we’ve collected more than 16,000 pilot applications – and we’ve now completed two years of hiring.
Over that time, we’ve learned some things and we’ve refined our process to make sure we hire not only the most technically skilled pilots, but also pilots that “fit” with and within the American Airlines culture. A lot of time and energy has gone into the development of our pilot recruitment process. You’ll see that technology plays a big role in the initial stages; however, since you are the ones that will fly with these people, we have a group of American pilots that interview the applicants that make it to the final stages of the hiring process, and they have a major voice in the hiring decision.
I’m sure that many of you know pilots interested in applying, so this Recruitment page includes the specifics on the interview process, information about the pilot selection process, instructions on how you can submit references/recommendation letters, and answers to a few common questions.
Now that we’ve got two years of hiring under our belt, I’d like to share some of the hiring differences between the years. View the 2014-2015 Hiring Stats Infographic.
As you can see, flow through agreements and reinstating our recalled pilots are becoming more prevalent in our hiring.
Flow Agreements
For every 500 pilot training slots, 250 or 50 percent are allocated for Envoy flows
For every 500 pilot training slots, 84 slots belong to both Piedmont and PSA
The remaining slots are reserved for recalls and new hires
In 2015, we placed more than 160 recalled pilots on payroll
So, what other factors impact our new hire statistics?
Previous deferrals remain eligible to return to payroll as long as they informed the company as of May 6, 2016
Currently, there are about 900 remaining pilots in a deferral status
A pilot on deferral only needs to give the company a 30-day notice to return to active status.
As we continue to grow, our plan is to bring on more than 1,500 new hire pilots by the end of 2017. It’s exciting bringing on new pilots, and their enthusiasm is contagious. You can feel that enthusiasm whether you’re walking the halls of the Flight Academy or sitting next to them in the cockpit. For all of us it means movement and more opportunity, which is great news for us all.
Captain Kimball Stone
How's 2.5 upgrade & 6 year flow looking now ?
10-28-2015, 05:04 PM
#1588
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by Cujo665
First, the flows from PDT/PSA are new hires. They are not deducted from the total hired for our 50% calculation; so right off the bat, you're wrong again as usual.
Parker announced hiring of 750, not 700, so again you're mistaken
50% would be 375 next year from Envoy. They can meter to 30 a month which would be 360 for the year; however they have to meet the 50% in the end. So not flowing isn't an option, you're wrong again.
We have about 1,000 CA's and about 300 of them won't flow. That means we are going to flow 1/3 of our Captains in just 1 year. IMHO, This place is about to turn into an upgrade factory. They kept the schoolhouse fully staffed and they kept the sim contracts as if we were still a 3,000 pilot airline. We are overstaffed and starting up a new training program for E175 will not cause a training bubble staffing shortage. The new planes are coming, and we have the fastest flow to AA of all three WO's.
Sure sounds more and more like their 6/2.5 is actually possible.
The pilots will go where the upgrades are reasonable, and the equipment is good. It's been proven already. Sorry it took you a few decades to go to AA; these new kids aren't going to have to deal with any of that.
Just posting facts and numbers. Unlike you, they don't lie.
Parker announced hiring of 750, not 700, so again you're mistaken
50% would be 375 next year from Envoy. They can meter to 30 a month which would be 360 for the year; however they have to meet the 50% in the end. So not flowing isn't an option, you're wrong again.
We have about 1,000 CA's and about 300 of them won't flow. That means we are going to flow 1/3 of our Captains in just 1 year. IMHO, This place is about to turn into an upgrade factory. They kept the schoolhouse fully staffed and they kept the sim contracts as if we were still a 3,000 pilot airline. We are overstaffed and starting up a new training program for E175 will not cause a training bubble staffing shortage. The new planes are coming, and we have the fastest flow to AA of all three WO's.
Sure sounds more and more like their 6/2.5 is actually possible.
The pilots will go where the upgrades are reasonable, and the equipment is good. It's been proven already. Sorry it took you a few decades to go to AA; these new kids aren't going to have to deal with any of that.
Just posting facts and numbers. Unlike you, they don't lie.
It's been such a "good time to be an Envoy pilot" for 6 months now and yet Envoy's new-hire requirements are an INCREASING deficit. The fact is that there simply aren't enough street pilots to fill Envoy classes and poaching isn't likely to make the difference.
Let's see how Envoy does by next Summer.
10-28-2015, 05:07 PM
#1589
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by adspilot
Man you sure do know how to ramble. For those of you that don't want to read the whole thing i'll break it down for you. (Guessing about AA hiring, wondering about envoy hiring, something about how he likes Miss Cleo, insults to Cujo, a crossing of fingers in hopes that Envoy fails)
Godspeed.
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