Endeavor
04-17-2014, 12:52 PM
#21
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Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 442
Originally Posted by rickt86
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudFastRules
Rumblings which seem to exist only on the regional level, and not at the majors. Hmm.....
That's not true. Even the last Aip at eagle theoretically offered 50% or 30 slots if under 60 in the class to eagle. There's further rumors something like this is the long term plan. Delta will follow suit.
Originally Posted by LoudFastRules
Rumblings which seem to exist only on the regional level, and not at the majors. Hmm.....
That's not true. Even the last Aip at eagle theoretically offered 50% or 30 slots if under 60 in the class to eagle. There's further rumors something like this is the long term plan. Delta will follow suit.
04-17-2014, 12:54 PM
#22
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,193
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Just curious, why?
04-17-2014, 01:19 PM
#23
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 614
Originally Posted by Catboatsailor
Coming to Endeavor is a poor career choice. With the downsizing even if you get/live on the east coast, you will continually be pushed to the bottom of reserve. We are losing exorbitantly more pilots than we can replace. When the majors start hiring in the Fall, we will downsize to just the 900's. With that you will become furlough fodder. Being wholly owned has never been a benefit to your career. Comair, Envoy, Endeavour, ExpressJet (when Cal owned them), etc. History has proven that you are better off going to a regional that owns their own airplanes and flies for multiple Majors. We have roughly 2,000 pilots, when we reduce to the core 900 fleet we will need less than 1,000 total.
Mother D will invest enough to ensure a return on their investment. How much is the enigma. So far the return to pilot group is abysmal. Pay cuts stung hard. The SSP is the kiss of death if you want a job at DAL.
Mother D will invest enough to ensure a return on their investment. How much is the enigma. So far the return to pilot group is abysmal. Pay cuts stung hard. The SSP is the kiss of death if you want a job at DAL.
It's not about seeing the glass half empty just because, or spitting out "jaded" opinions or hating on 9Es management for free, this post is about letting you know precisely what's going on. Anything else is conjecture, at least as of now.
04-17-2014, 03:07 PM
#24
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 149
All anyone can do is try to educate himself/herself on the industry. This is a tough place to get a real unbiased/unemotional opinion.
Endeavor is tough right now and there's a lot of emotion getting in the way of reality. Any & all regionals suck period and will continue to suck until the real hiring begins.
In the end all anyone can do is make the best educated guess and stick with it.
Here's my take:
-I would select a regional based on where you want to live and it's bases, not the specific airline because commuting just sucks.
-The pay between them is close enough that I personally can't justify one over another.
-I would not make a lateral move even though I've been stuck in the right seat too long. To me, it's crazy to start all over and hope it'll rebound at another regional. (However, those that rolled the dice and went to compass made a good move but I wouldn't make that move today.)
-same applies to Mesa. Lots of a/c orders with the potential of movement but a lot of the classes are guys making lateral moves and that'll only go on for so long. A friend had JO walk into class and say the same thing: they're biggest hurdle is finding pilots and that'll dictate how fast things move.
-I think more regionals will merge creating the same internal issues we've had and Id rather not do it again.
-one positive about endeavor: we've come a long way and while it's not great, it's better than it was and I think it's going to get better. I do believe we can keep however many 200's as we can staff and scarring people away because we are ****ed about the last 2 years is stupid. Any growth we have is good for everyone. Delta has done a lot and you need to follow the money, not emotions to see what's happening. I don't think we'll ever see a flow but my money is that they'll do something like a "b scale" and improve the contract before they lose everything. It's cheaper for them to bump us in pay than have their own guys do it. The regionals will be a farm team for their major counterpart and they'll go to the flt schools get the people in the seats and they'll eventually pull them up to the mothership while they hire their NASA guys directly into the queen of the fleet....(md-88)
Endeavor is tough right now and there's a lot of emotion getting in the way of reality. Any & all regionals suck period and will continue to suck until the real hiring begins.
In the end all anyone can do is make the best educated guess and stick with it.
Here's my take:
-I would select a regional based on where you want to live and it's bases, not the specific airline because commuting just sucks.
-The pay between them is close enough that I personally can't justify one over another.
-I would not make a lateral move even though I've been stuck in the right seat too long. To me, it's crazy to start all over and hope it'll rebound at another regional. (However, those that rolled the dice and went to compass made a good move but I wouldn't make that move today.)
-same applies to Mesa. Lots of a/c orders with the potential of movement but a lot of the classes are guys making lateral moves and that'll only go on for so long. A friend had JO walk into class and say the same thing: they're biggest hurdle is finding pilots and that'll dictate how fast things move.
-I think more regionals will merge creating the same internal issues we've had and Id rather not do it again.
-one positive about endeavor: we've come a long way and while it's not great, it's better than it was and I think it's going to get better. I do believe we can keep however many 200's as we can staff and scarring people away because we are ****ed about the last 2 years is stupid. Any growth we have is good for everyone. Delta has done a lot and you need to follow the money, not emotions to see what's happening. I don't think we'll ever see a flow but my money is that they'll do something like a "b scale" and improve the contract before they lose everything. It's cheaper for them to bump us in pay than have their own guys do it. The regionals will be a farm team for their major counterpart and they'll go to the flt schools get the people in the seats and they'll eventually pull them up to the mothership while they hire their NASA guys directly into the queen of the fleet....(md-88)
04-17-2014, 03:24 PM
#25
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Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 216
Originally Posted by gojo
I'm continually surprised by the amount of people that come on to these web boards for information on specific airlines. To me it seems that most of the people that post on here are of the jaded variety, and I wish there was a better balance. In my opinion, pick an airline for bases and equipment. Beyond that almost all regionals share the same problems with unpredictable futures. Also There's a few, for right now a least, that show promise of a quicker upgrade, if that's important to you. Good luck to you
04-17-2014, 03:34 PM
#26
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Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 87
Originally Posted by Catboatsailor
Mother D will invest enough to ensure a return on their investment. How much is the enigma. So far the return to pilot group is abysmal. Pay cuts stung hard. The SSP is the kiss of death if you want a job at DAL.
04-17-2014, 03:55 PM
#27
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Joined APC: May 2013
Position: The Parlor
Posts: 1,243
Originally Posted by Sturbmaster
Really? We have a 40% selection rate. Is that bad, yes absolutely but what is the current rate for off the street hires? 6% or so I believe... Seems to me if you are at Endeavor you have a much better chance to be at DL if you want to be there in the future. If you are an Endeavor pilot go ahead and quit and report back how easy it is to get an interview as an off the street applicant.
04-17-2014, 04:13 PM
#28
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 614
Question 1: Don't you have to be a CA in order to qualify for the SSP?
Question 2: How long would it take a current newhire to upgrade at 9E, currently a shrinking airline?
I don't agree with scaring FOs away just out of frustration and emotions about 9E. But trying to paint a false over optimistic image of the airline in order to lure new hires into class just because it may allow 9E to keep more crj200s and have more people below you on the list is just plain wrong IMHO.
Question 2: How long would it take a current newhire to upgrade at 9E, currently a shrinking airline?
I don't agree with scaring FOs away just out of frustration and emotions about 9E. But trying to paint a false over optimistic image of the airline in order to lure new hires into class just because it may allow 9E to keep more crj200s and have more people below you on the list is just plain wrong IMHO.
04-17-2014, 05:17 PM
#30
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by Catboatsailor
Coming to Endeavor is a poor career choice. With the downsizing even if you get/live on the east coast, you will continually be pushed to the bottom of reserve. We are losing exorbitantly more pilots than we can replace. When the majors start hiring in the Fall, we will downsize to just the 900's. With that you will become furlough fodder. Being wholly owned has never been a benefit to your career. Comair, Envoy, Endeavour, ExpressJet (when Cal owned them), etc. History has proven that you are better off going to a regional that owns their own airplanes and flies for multiple Majors. We have roughly 2,000 pilots, when we reduce to the core 900 fleet we will need less than 1,000 total.
Mother D will invest enough to ensure a return on their investment. How much is the enigma. So far the return to pilot group is abysmal. Pay cuts stung hard. The SSP is the kiss of death if you want a job at DAL.
Mother D will invest enough to ensure a return on their investment. How much is the enigma. So far the return to pilot group is abysmal. Pay cuts stung hard. The SSP is the kiss of death if you want a job at DAL.
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