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Old 07-21-2014, 09:49 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by samballs View Post
1. Training, vacation, etc are put on your schedule before bidding.
2. No open time = no trading
3. For every action you you input there is a reaction, say no in pbs and it declares nuclear war on you.
4. No open time = less reserves, less reserves = more JMS and extensions
5. It will and does stray from your bid
6. Vacation months can have close to min days off.
7. That should be enough to convince a no vote

#1 is very TRUE
#2 is true only to an extent. It will mean LESS trading flexibility for sure though.
#3 I don't really believe that to be true, from MY experiences with multiple PBS systems.
#4 Yes they need less RSV's, but I have actually experienced LESS JM and extensions with PBS vs. paper bidding. Again, those are MY experiences.
#5 PBS is a function of seniority. What you are saying, does happen, but only because a person is not bidding properly and/or as a function of their seniority
#6 is also true, unless you are very junior(junior pilots will not see a difference since they were getting close to min days off anyway). Your schedules as a more senior pilot will be WORSE than expected during vacation months. It is very dependent on how much credit and/or virtual credit is given for vacation time. If PBS is coming your way and there is nothing you can do to stop it, at least fight for 30 HRS credit (or virtual credit) for each week of vacation.
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Old 07-21-2014, 09:52 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by samballs View Post
1. Training, vacation, etc are put on your schedule before bidding.
2. No open time = no trading
3. For every action you you input there is a reaction, say no in pbs and it declares nuclear war on you.
4. No open time = less reserves, less reserves = more JMS and extensions
5. It will and does stray from your bid
6. Vacation months can have close to min days off.
7. That should be enough to convince a no vote
Well so far PBS has been working great for myself but I hardly ever work any open time or bid conflicts. What do you mean by "it declares nuclear war on you" when you say no?
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:56 AM
  #23  
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I am firmly against PBS...but with that said it's not like trading for open time is useful right now.

I have nothing against those who pick up OT but it screws up trips in open time. They come along and scavenge the first and/or last turn of a trip. So now a 4 day trip that used to be worth 18+ hours is only worth 12 to 13 if you are lucky.

No way anybody can trade and lose all that time. A quick look at the trips in open time and you will see that trend. Add to that swaps & drops has been denying EVERYTHING for at least the past year.

The only chance of trip trading anything decent right now is during the TTOT window before all the OT heroes come along and pick apart trips.
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:41 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by embraer View Post
I am firmly against PBS...but with that said it's not like trading for open time is useful right now.

I have nothing against those who pick up OT but it screws up trips in open time. They come along and scavenge the first and/or last turn of a trip. So now a 4 day trip that used to be worth 18+ hours is only worth 12 to 13 if you are lucky.

No way anybody can trade and lose all that time. A quick look at the trips in open time and you will see that trend. Add to that swaps & drops has been denying EVERYTHING for at least the past year.

The only chance of trip trading anything decent right now is during the TTOT window before all the OT heroes come along and pick apart trips.
Actually I do trade down from 18 to 12 hours because I refuse to spend the night before or the night after in base because I can't commute home.

Our biggest problem with PBS is that we have no language protecting us in our contract. We don't have a min value for a day, we don't have a trip or duty rig, etc. unless we get those things I am 100% a no vote for PBS.
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:52 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by IDG99 View Post
Well so far PBS has been working great for myself but I hardly ever work any open time or bid conflicts. What do you mean by "it declares nuclear war on you" when you say no?
Not sure who you work for, but if its eagle you realize the test are false since not everyone is bidding in front of you, And wait till vacation month comes
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:45 PM
  #26  
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PBS can be designed in multiple ways...it just depends on how you and the company agree to implement PBS, and what the details will be. There is no problem bidding for training and trading trips, IF the PBS system you implement is designed to do those things.

Having a daily rig, along with a line/award guarantee is a very nice thing to have...multiple rigs are even better...
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:41 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by atpcliff View Post
PBS can be designed in multiple ways...it just depends on how you and the company agree to implement PBS, and what the details will be. There is no problem bidding for training and trading trips, IF the PBS system you implement is designed to do those things.

Having a daily rig, along with a line/award guarantee is a very nice thing to have...multiple rigs are even better...
Envoy's will almost certainly have none of these. All PBS will do here is allow management to do more with less. Less need for captains, no DTS, no conflicts, essentially nothing for most. Hearing from those doing parallel bidding, it supposedly has been awful. I cannot fathom why this pilot group would be inclined to give this management another gift considering the treatment they've gotten so far.
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Old 07-21-2014, 02:29 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by eaglefly View Post
Envoy's will almost certainly have none of these. All PBS will do here is allow management to do more with less. Less need for captains, no DTS, no conflicts, essentially nothing for most. Hearing from those doing parallel bidding, it supposedly has been awful. I cannot fathom why this pilot group would be inclined to give this management another gift considering the treatment they've gotten so far.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but perhaps you should let those of us actually at Envoy worry about it.

Those of us who are still here and directly affected by our choices thank you for your concern...but its not needed.
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Old 07-21-2014, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by embraer View Post
I'm not disagreeing with you, but perhaps you should let those of us actually at Envoy worry about it.

Those of us who are still here and directly affected by our choices thank you for your concern...but its not needed.
As a staunch yes voter for everything that had come down the pike and one who rarely agrees with me, your sentiments aren't a surprise. I'm sorry, but one of the common denominators of this forum is the opportunity for all to join any thread or comment on any topic. Working for the carrier in question isn't required nor suggested.

Thanks for your interest in controlling me, but it is not needed. I'm sure you're going to have as tough a time surreptitiously selling PBS as you were the failed TA and the B-scale before that.
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Old 07-21-2014, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by eaglefly View Post
Probably won't be until Parker makes his next move.
Which will be coming in the Fall at the earliest if at all. People here desperately want some news, it's why Mason was so popular. I respect the pilot group's decision in voting no on the AIP but I feel there are some who weren't prepared to deal with the potential consequences.
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