Honesty time- any regional lifers?
01-29-2015, 12:50 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by bedrock
Around 2006 I was talking with a check airman. We were discussing the future. He had young kids, was living in base, making 90K+ I imagine, and was VERY happy. We were growing, we had our VERY OWN BRAND, new bases, forward thinking CEO, He had 17 days off a month, reserve was short, any line holder got 14-15 days off a month, pay was good, contract was great, FREE vacation passes, usually in business first on Continental.
NONE of that exists now at XJT. Our pay and contract are still above std, but the std has fallen so looow. There is no future as a regional pilot. Regionals are suppliers to mainline and suppliers can be switched quickly. Most regionals signed ludicrously one-sided contracts to even get to participate. These contracts can be canceled for a variety of reasons and the only way to keep playing is to keep cutting costs--on the backs of the employees. That is the ONLY thing this model can do. They can't raise prices or cut capacity on their own. A regional pilot is in effect an employee of an employee (the regional airline he works for). Employees get laid off all the time, so why be in an even worse situation and remain a double employee for one minute longer than necessary.
NONE of that exists now at XJT. Our pay and contract are still above std, but the std has fallen so looow. There is no future as a regional pilot. Regionals are suppliers to mainline and suppliers can be switched quickly. Most regionals signed ludicrously one-sided contracts to even get to participate. These contracts can be canceled for a variety of reasons and the only way to keep playing is to keep cutting costs--on the backs of the employees. That is the ONLY thing this model can do. They can't raise prices or cut capacity on their own. A regional pilot is in effect an employee of an employee (the regional airline he works for). Employees get laid off all the time, so why be in an even worse situation and remain a double employee for one minute longer than necessary.
01-29-2015, 01:10 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: ERJ, CA
Posts: 718
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Regionals were always suppliers to their major partners. The only difference between now and then was that 2002-2006 was the boom of the regional airline industry. 12-24 month upgrades everywhere (except Eagle due to flowbacks). Your check airman friend was enjoying all of that in 2006 at a 100% expense of furloughed mainline pilots. Now that the tables have turned...
01-29-2015, 05:48 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 103
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Gotta like how regional lifers only look at first year LCC/Major pay to justify themselves. Seriously? There is something beyond 12 months.
First year pay only lasts 1 year, but you will be furlough bait for many to come.
01-30-2015, 03:14 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,750
Sitting on 10K+ hours and 6k+ TPIC isn't helpful. I don't think anyone goes to a regional intending to stay, but if the phone doesn't ring, then the phone doesn't ring. You do everything you can think of but sometimes the calls don't come.
If you came into this a bit late in the came and came from another system (I did) and you don't have those contacts from early on it's very hard to get them.
There are tons of folks I know getting hired who have the contacts from UND and ERAU and their military contacts, etc.
I just wish I could get an interview, let alone an offer. The thing working in the favor of the involuntary lifers (like myself) is that attrition at major airlines will grow to unsustainable levels over the next few years.
Nobody wants to be a lifer. It just happens.
If you came into this a bit late in the came and came from another system (I did) and you don't have those contacts from early on it's very hard to get them.
There are tons of folks I know getting hired who have the contacts from UND and ERAU and their military contacts, etc.
I just wish I could get an interview, let alone an offer. The thing working in the favor of the involuntary lifers (like myself) is that attrition at major airlines will grow to unsustainable levels over the next few years.
Nobody wants to be a lifer. It just happens.
01-30-2015, 06:35 AM
#46
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 236
The comment about the "hobbyist" being the new backbone of a regional is the absolute dumbest thing I ever heard on this forum. Most of the ones I know make at least 5x as much on the side than what the regional pays. The second that crew track gives them something they don't want, they quit. They quit when the fun wanes. If you want to retain them, well.. Your better off retaining all of your pilots with a higher QOL, and all that it entails.
01-30-2015, 07:54 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: ERJ, CA
Posts: 718
Originally Posted by RB211
The comment about the "hobbyist" being the new backbone of a regional is the absolute dumbest thing I ever heard on this forum. Most of the ones I know make at least 5x as much on the side than what the regional pays. The second that crew track gives them something they don't want, they quit. They quit when the fun wanes. If you want to retain them, well.. Your better off retaining all of your pilots with a higher QOL, and all that it entails.
01-30-2015, 09:16 AM
#49
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,190
Originally Posted by DashTrash
The plain truth of the matter is that the regional airline business model is broken. The fleets for the regional airlines are shrinking and the economics do not line up. They have to bid on flying from each mainline partner and those RFPs are usually long term contracts. After about 4-5, years pilots start becoming a financial liability rather than an asset. This has been stated many times from the likes of J.O. and others. I was told that when I was at Great Lakes from the President of the Company. Add to that, we that came from regional backgrounds are going to try and reclaim as much flying back to mainline as possible. In a perfect world there would be no regional airlines. All of that flying would be at mainline!
As far as mainline management is concerned, the regional system has never worked better. Despite an impending shortage regional pilots are falling all over themselves to take paycuts. In the eyes of management we're all commodity-widgets, no product differentiation at all (Ok well there was that whole colgan thing), so why not just buy the cheapest widgets?
01-30-2015, 09:40 AM
#50
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 97
Originally Posted by RB211
The comment about the "hobbyist" being the new backbone of a regional is the absolute dumbest thing I ever heard on this forum. Most of the ones I know make at least 5x as much on the side than what the regional pays. The second that crew track gives them something they don't want, they quit. They quit when the fun wanes. If you want to retain them, well.. Your better off retaining all of your pilots with a higher QOL, and all that it entails.
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