Notices
Envoy Airlines Regional Airline

New Envoy Information

Old 05-11-2016, 03:21 PM
  #2811  
Line Holder
 
Qwerty320's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 43
Default

Originally Posted by RyanP View Post
The 145 is actually a lot more fun to fly than the 175 and the new hires would be much better off learning in it to be honest. If it was up to me they would all start out in it and would all become better pilots because of it. THEN, move up to the 175 auto-jet after they mastered that. You actually got to fly the 145, it's very forgiving, like a trainer, hard to get yourself into trouble, can go as slow as you want, decent like a rock if you need too, its very basic and you learn a lot about flying simple basic jet aircraft with large margins of error built in and a huge safe speed range to play with, and you are regularly hand flying different things in all kinds of conditions, very short runways, uncontrolled at night, crappy weather hand flying approaches, actually flying stars and crossing restrictions manually, fun visual approaches into podunk fields with no tower, and it teaches you a lot.

The CRJ 700 is a step up, it is more advanced, more of a critical wing, slats, less forgiving up at high altitudes, less forgiving with speeds, harder to slow down, more powerful, it will bite you in the a ss if you screw up and get too slow up high, heavy or hot, it's harder to land, you do WAY less non precision approaches, less fun visual approaches, mostly all you do is controlled field, big airport, straight in ILS type of crap just due to the nature of where we fly it.

Where the E175 you don't really "fly" it at all anymore with auto throttles and VNAV, you're just an automation monitor, you program the FMS to do EVERYTHING, then just sit back and make sure it actually does it, no more pushing buttons on the overhead or using judgement to make a crossing restriction, no more trying to slow down and maintain speed in gusty winds on an approach, no more thinking about what do I need to do now to make this happen, it does it all for you until you click off the autopilot at 50' for landing. Hand flying it is discouraged. Then you don't even pull the thrust levers back to land, it even does that for you at 30'. You really don't do anything anymore. Yeah, it's nicer and bigger, and way better for the passengers, but flying it isn't even flying anymore. This is from someone that has been on all 3 of our jets now.

Honestly the Saab was the most fun plane here I flew and glad I did it. The 175 is boring compared to the others and will make you lose all your skills, your scan will go to hell and you will become lazy since you are no longer even required to fly it at all once you learn to program the box on this thing. The one thing actually beneficial about the 175 is it is a good transition aircraft to a 737/Airbus or similar mainline aircraft because the FMS/auto-throttles and VNAV is about the same.

Funny thing is if you were to click off the autopilot and auto throttles on a new hire on the 175, take away his VNAV info and tell him to fly the STAR into DFW with all the between altitude step downs with speed restrictions, he would be completely screwed because he has no experience or skills to do it because of this jet normally doing everything for you, and that is how we are trained to operate it. It's not their fault, they never learned to actually fly a jet without all the higher level automation.. just the way it is now.

Nothing wrong with flying a 145 or a CRJ7, both are way the hell better than a C-172 or a Seminole.
???? Come on.... You click off the autopilot and auto throttles just like every other airplane. And the last time I checked "most" airlines that fly it encouraged flying it with all the automation off below 10,000' and hand flying it. Yes it can fly all of it but I have never seen any 175 pilots leave it all on, on the approach. The only time you have to have the auto throttles on is during takeoff. The rest I really don't see the argument...
Qwerty320 is offline  
Old 05-11-2016, 03:22 PM
  #2812  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Buzzlightyear's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 569
Default

Originally Posted by joek View Post
You have issues letting things go. OMFG get over already.
It's just business right?!! Don't take it so personal. Pffftt.
Buzzlightyear is offline  
Old 05-11-2016, 04:45 PM
  #2813  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 595
Default

Originally Posted by sublime259 View Post
Wrong wrong wrong! This is why there is so much hatred towards you scab$...because you just don't get it. Any pilot hired in the past 2 and a half years knowingly went to a company that perpetuated the race to the bottom. At least some of the guys hired pre-vote could claim they voted no and tried to convince their peers of the right course of action. The new guys? They're just as bad, if not worse, then the ones who voted on that contract. I know many pilots who wouldn't get caught dead even interviewing at that scumbag operation after the 2013 vote.
"Race to the Bottom" as all regional FOs make more money than they ever have. Keep up the angry rhetoric.
Ar Pilot is online now  
Old 05-11-2016, 09:40 PM
  #2814  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 118
Default

Originally Posted by sublime259 View Post
Wrong wrong wrong! This is why there is so much hatred towards you scab$...because you just don't get it. Any pilot hired in the past 2 and a half years knowingly went to a company that perpetuated the race to the bottom. At least some of the guys hired pre-vote could claim they voted no and tried to convince their peers of the right course of action. The new guys? They're just as bad, if not worse, then the ones who voted on that contract. I know many pilots who wouldn't get caught dead even interviewing at that scumbag operation after the 2013 vote.
You are too emotional!!!
Pilotatheart is offline  
Old 05-11-2016, 09:49 PM
  #2815  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 118
Default

Originally Posted by SkyWago View Post
Crew room is already full and I doubt you guys will get door codes so that is a good place to start on keeping other WOs out.
There will be a stampage who can sit down first in your ugly chairs.
Pilotatheart is offline  
Old 05-11-2016, 11:04 PM
  #2816  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Posts: 806
Default

Originally Posted by RyanP View Post
The 145 is actually a lot more fun to fly than the 175 and the new hires would be much better off learning in it to be honest. If it was up to me they would all start out in it and would all become better pilots because of it. THEN, move up to the 175 auto-jet after they mastered that. You actually got to fly the 145, it's very forgiving, like a trainer, hard to get yourself into trouble, can go as slow as you want, decent like a rock if you need too, its very basic and you learn a lot about flying simple basic jet aircraft with large margins of error built in and a huge safe speed range to play with, and you are regularly hand flying different things in all kinds of conditions, very short runways, uncontrolled at night, crappy weather hand flying approaches, actually flying stars and crossing restrictions manually, fun visual approaches into podunk fields with no tower, and it teaches you a lot.

The CRJ 700 is a step up, it is more advanced, more of a critical wing, slats, less forgiving up at high altitudes, less forgiving with speeds, harder to slow down, more powerful, it will bite you in the a ss if you screw up and get too slow up high, heavy or hot, it's harder to land, you do WAY less non precision approaches, less fun visual approaches, mostly all you do is controlled field, big airport, straight in ILS type of crap just due to the nature of where we fly it.

Where the E175 you don't really "fly" it at all anymore with auto throttles and VNAV, you're just an automation monitor, you program the FMS to do EVERYTHING, then just sit back and make sure it actually does it, no more pushing buttons on the overhead or using judgement to make a crossing restriction, no more trying to slow down and maintain speed in gusty winds on an approach, no more thinking about what do I need to do now to make this happen, it does it all for you until you click off the autopilot at 50' for landing. Hand flying it is discouraged. Then you don't even pull the thrust levers back to land, it even does that for you at 30'. You really don't do anything anymore. Yeah, it's nicer and bigger, and way better for the passengers, but flying it isn't even flying anymore. This is from someone that has been on all 3 of our jets now.

Honestly the Saab was the most fun plane here I flew and glad I did it. The 175 is boring compared to the others and will make you lose all your skills, your scan will go to hell and you will become lazy since you are no longer even required to fly it at all once you learn to program the box on this thing. The one thing actually beneficial about the 175 is it is a good transition aircraft to a 737/Airbus or similar mainline aircraft because the FMS/auto-throttles and VNAV is about the same.

Funny thing is if you were to click off the autopilot and auto throttles on a new hire on the 175, take away his VNAV info and tell him to fly the STAR into DFW with all the between altitude step downs with speed restrictions, he would be completely screwed because he has no experience or skills to do it because of this jet normally doing everything for you, and that is how we are trained to operate it. It's not their fault, they never learned to actually fly a jet without all the higher level automation.. just the way it is now.

Nothing wrong with flying a 145 or a CRJ7, both are way the hell better than a C-172 or a Seminole.
You are wrong about your perception of the E175 in so many levels. The E145 may not have the VNAV PTH feature but it sure as hell doesn't leave the pilots doing mental math on the DFW RNAV - it prompts you to hold a specific VS in order to make the restriction. It's one addtl step to the automation.

You can fly the E175 just like an E145 and have no a/p or a/t and it's allowed. I've personally flown it with both FMS's deferred in green needles and had no issue figuring everything out.

The E175 just fixes everything pilots wish they had on the E145 and adds some nifty features, but don't say airmanship is crappier with a E175 pilot than a E145 guy because everyone should know the basics and they do. Give your fellow pilot professionals a little bit more credit. The stuff you're spewing out is pretty disrespectful.
Da40Pilot is offline  
Old 05-11-2016, 11:37 PM
  #2817  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Realtalk's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 391
Default

Just a check up, its been about a year give or take a couple months since they touted 2.5/6....how's that going ? 1.5 years left for that guy who took the bait?
Realtalk is offline  
Old 05-12-2016, 02:36 AM
  #2818  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Position: Feito no Brasil, CA
Posts: 833
Default New Envoy Information

"Any pilot hired within the last two years..."

Ok, that argument holds no water. You take the job that's offered if it's where you are willing to work. There is no picket line now, there is no strike. Newbies aren't responsible for the contract they didn't sign, and as we've just finished discussing seniority the reasons for taking the job should be glaringly obvious. I don't know about everyone else here, but I didn't research the bickering history between the original pre-merged eaglets and choose where to go because of some contract disputes or who took someone's flying. My only regret in that context is not choosing to come here sooner, I'd be out of this place already.

Lastly, yes AAG is to blame. However, someone had to kick off the avalanche in the unstable snowpack. Reasons or not, they led the fall.
AdiosMikeFox is offline  
Old 05-12-2016, 04:11 AM
  #2819  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 540
Default

Originally Posted by Realtalk View Post
Just a check up, its been about a year give or take a couple months since they touted 2.5/6....how's that going ? 1.5 years left for that guy who took the bait?
The 2.5/6 or 2.5/5.5 as some liked to call it was a company created fuzzy math ponzi scheme. It was based on the absolute best case scenario and that essentially 360 or so pilots would flow to AA each year without metering or holdbacks. Let's state today that the upgrade is still at 8 years and the guys flowing are between 15 and 16 years of seniority.

In a perfect world, I agree that the math adds up. However, we know that the world isn't perfect and when you are dealing with Envoy/AAG management, well, if you take what they say at face value then PM me as I have some great oceanfront property I'd like to sell you at a deep discount.

The first chink in this plan came several months ago when the company metered 5 flows in an overstaffed situation. Why would they do this? Well, because they are Envoy/AAG and they can. That about sums it up.

Fast forward several months and Envoy continues to hold onto more airframes in addition with getting returned frames that weren't in the original fleet plan. Envoy's fleet plan is fluid as the staffing situation at other regionals is just as dire as what Envoy is left with. Now, Envoy is offering vacation buybacks over the summer so they've quickly gone from very fat on staffing to understaffed. Consider also that outside the flow, an average of 10 pilots leave per month, about 5 CA and 5 FO.

There are still roughly 300 or so of the 824 remaining to flow. It has always been my belief that the company intends on flowing out the 824 as soon as they possibly can and then assessing the situation and changing the flow program to meet the challenges of the current environment. Today, even flowing out these last 300 or so guys is going to be very tough for them to do as Envoy is not getting enough new hires to replace the guys leaving. Call it what you want, contractual, letter of agreement or whatever, I can guarantee you that the company will absolutely not flow out more than it takes to operate the fleet. There are those that say this will not happen because no one will come here. Well, it's already happening.

Envoy needs a minimum of 35 new hires per month to keep this ponzi scheme alive. They almost achieved that target in April with the bonus program that was expanded to Part 91 guys in addition to the others that already qualified. There weren't apparently many takers as the number of new hires in May is currently at 1. Envoy has been averaging about 15 new hires per month over the course of last year. I do not expect that to change this year. The company is already looking at what they can do to attract new hires outside of what has already been done. The problem remains though that you can give a pig a bath and get him all cleaned up and looking good, but later on he's going to get dirty again and is still a pig.

First, Envoy must change their culture and treatment of their employees. As a former Eaglevoy pilot myself, I can tell you that this is a long ingrained behavior held over from the AMR days. AAG has taken over and actually made things worse. This is something I do not think the company has the ability to change. It's accepted behavior and those on the outside can speak to those inside and make their decision. Today's environment allows them to do that. Apparently, around 20 to 25 just recently said thanks but no thanks to Envoy after being hired but not guaranteed the E175. Definitely a bad move in many ways, but with today's mindset of the ME generation and market conditions, they can absolutely do that. I guess they also decided to forego the horrible treatment of pilots just to fly one of Envoy's aged out 145's.

Envoy has managed to shoot themselves in the foot yet again and management is searching for answers on how to solve this riddle of "Why don't they come here?" As usual, unable to see the forest for the trees, nothing will change.

Management does have a reprieve over the summer as the Letter T pilots return, the halt of the flow is expected. After the final Letter T guy returns and the flow is geared up to resume with anxious Envoy pilots chomping at the bit, the day of reckoning will arrive. I've stated that to be near the end of this year. With few new hires and a fleet of planes AAG demands Envoy to operate, you will then see management with no choice but to keep every available body on property as that's unfortunately their last card to play.
ag386 is offline  
Old 05-12-2016, 04:34 AM
  #2820  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 344
Default

The vacation buy back is only for captains and 175 FO. All those training pipelines are currently full but won't have enough bodies in june. This is just a simple case of mismanaged resources.
RawHide is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
satpak77
Envoy Airlines
82
03-25-2020 05:55 AM
heading180
Regional
6098
08-18-2014 01:11 PM
bernoulli1129
Regional
1809
07-17-2014 12:05 PM
DFWEMB
Envoy Airlines
48
02-03-2014 09:52 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices