iFlyRC

I always ask my friends at Envoy about doing a sideways move, and ask about the fast upgrade. Always get the same response, they laugh at me and profanities start flying about how much of a lie it is.
Do you concur EagleFly?

eaglefly

...and yet you make a post that flies in direct opposition to your point of your cry to others of not engaging me.

I'm not going to blast you. Well, there DOES appear to be some emotion here with you calling me "McFly" as that indicates someone is upset and agitated, but you obviously have your convictions and I certainly wouldn't want to take that from you as they seem important to you.

Of course, I guess once again, someone will just make the silly claim that I once again have won something. Hopefully, your blood pressure hasn't gotten high enough to give you a bad nights sleep, especially if you have to fly early tomorrow. If not, well go ahead and crack that 8th beer and by all means continue to self-medicate.

eaglefly

You have to decide what's right for you, not your friends, me or the SOS. A regional lateral move from/to anywhere is risky and each pilots situation and priorities are different. As far as upgrades at Envoy go (which impact the ability to flow, because they in turn impact the need for new-hires), from my POV, the numbers don't add up for a 2.5 year upgrade and no one can accurately claim anything 6 years out.

But you should decide that for yourself based on what regional you're at, it's health and your treatment, present position and future desires.

emb145

Unfortunately this thread is the wrong place for truly accurate info even though it is titled Envoy Information.

There are four or five posters on here that have had their brains pickled by the Envoy management kool aid. If you state a couple of current facts they are on you like flies to **** preparing to kick you into a corner to give you a blanket party for so much as questioning the upgrade time or actual current flow situation.

Eaglefly posts accurate numbers and I agree with him that the 2.5 year upgrade Envoy is advertising for new hires doesn't hold water. 700 plus FO's would need to upgrade over the next 2 years for that 2.5 year upgrade to work. Yes, they are shrinking still but it does not change the fact that for a new hire to upgrade in 2.5 years, again, 700 plus FO's will need to upgrade.

The current upgrade is held by a 2007 hire making current upgrade time just over 8 years. I do agree that this will come down, maybe to 6 or so years but that may take a couple of years from now to reach.

The latest person to flow is a mid 1999 hire. So, currently a 15+ year flow. I agree that this number will come down as well, but it will take longer. Five years from now, you might see a 10 year flow or a bit less. One wild card is the ability to get new hire pilots in the door. Envoy has averaged hiring 125 per year over the past 3 years.

When Envoy reaches 1600 pilots, they should be done shrinking. They are around 400 from this number now which should allow the remaining 824 flowers to move over to AA without much issue. After that it gets dicey as Envoy MUST have new hires to allow the flow to move along. Unless you believe the very dense, militant Riddle kids on here who say otherwise.

Those are some actual numbers for you. Not just a bunch of hyperbole and projections. Take it as you will. Not saying Envoy is a terrible place to be, but like all regionals, the pay blows, QOL sucks and you are treated like garbage. I know. I spent years there and moved on to greener pastures.

amcnd

Finaly some hard facts!! Thanks emb145!! Below is so correct. And things wont change very quick with a slight shrinkage...

"The current upgrade is held by a 2007 hire making current upgrade time just over 8 years. I do agree that this will come down, maybe to 6 or so years but that may take a couple of years from now to reach.

The latest person to flow is a mid 1999 hire. So, currently a 15+ year flow. I agree that this number will come down as well, but it will take longer. Five years from now, you might see a 10 year flow or a bit less. One wild card is the ability to get new hire pilots in the door. Envoy has averaged hiring 125 per year over the past 3 years. "

PilotJ3

Sorry...

Shrinking only 4 planes next year. How is that going to take us down to 1600 pilots. Btw...they meant "actives pilots", so we might be probably close to that number by about 100 or so.

Remember the "right size", was before RAH had the troubles they are having, PSA can't get enough new hires to fill all the planes. That's why the CRjs are staying longer, the TSA and XJet planes (30 145s) will come back to envoy.

I do agree about the 2.5. I believe it will come down to 6 next year. Then it will take about 1-2 years more to get done with the 2011 hires. So it should be around 4 years to get upgrade, if we can get the new hires. That will be seen if the flow starts moving the list and pilots realize that the movement is real. Until then, I understand why new guys are going to NWO regionals.

AnotherEagleGuy

He has a point. You have almost 7000 post, you need to get a real life outside of the internet. Why you have a hard on for Eagle, I have no idea. Battered wife syndrome? I've seen on a few different boards of the people that have left for other jobs, yet they seem to hang around for some reason. They just can't let go of the hate I guess. Or just love trolling.

Eagle is like any other regional. Its a REGIONAL. They all EQUALLY suck. They are not career airlines, they are stepping stones to something better.

Except it, get over it, move on, get a life.

Look people, its not hard. Pick a regional that has a base where you live so you don't have to commute on reserve, get the 121 experience, hit the apps hard. Network, go to trade shows, stalk the HR people, do whatever it takes to get you that Mainline job. If Jetblue or Spirit is your mainline, then so be it. PIC means little now days. Most of the people I've seen hired didn't have any.

daOldMan

If this was true, why do the Envoy guys do nothing but spew hate about all of the other regionals? If someone chooses a regional based on what you have said, why do Envoy guys call them scabs for following your advice? Why do they say that they are hurting all the other regionals by taking a job at a place like Mesa, PSA, or Republic?

eaglefly

Gee, yet another one of Envoy's usual suspects arrives to back slap his SOS buddies by throwing his own rock at me.

What a surprising development.

eaglefly

The mirror is a difficult place to look sometimes...............