New Envoy Information
08-31-2016, 01:23 PM
#4701
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 502
Originally Posted by AdiosMikeFox
Noted further up the thread it's been indicated that base and type choices are not going to be the pilot's choice any longer. I other words, you get to choose what's available, not wait for what you want.
08-31-2016, 01:32 PM
#4702
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Position: FO
Posts: 793
Originally Posted by Shiner
So far they have increased FO pay (via a retention bonus and a new hire bonus). They are still selling the flow hard in recruiting. However, it would appear base and aircraft type are what's driving the new hire numbers. When that stops working, they'll have to come up with something else. But it will be managements problem to deal with, not the pilots.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
E175 would have been nice, but i would take the E145 to be based in DFW and limit my commute, in fact i was planning to move to DFW for better QOL.
Now, after hiring for DFW all summer and during the time i applied, Pilot Recruitment Administrator says only ORD is being offered in September. Also she said that the Newhire class Monday all are going to ORD, that I should expect that for all of September also.
I Agreeed to take the next class, due to these changes I WILL be looking at the other 3 airline offers i recieved, as they have the base I want.
I'd hate to be based in ORD. As i'm purley focused on QOL and base assignment. Envoy seems to be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of Recruitment! IT JUST STARTED GROWING AND STABLIZING.
I would love seniority at Envoy DFW base, flowing in 7-8 yrs down the line does not bother me (personal preference) as mass hiring will occure btw 2019-2025 anyways. Each person is different and have different needs. Mine is not to move to ORD or commute 3:30 mins to ORD from the SW.
I was told i can bid for DFW E145 after IOE while based in ORD and i should no problem getting it.
I honestly feel like i'm being lied to. So i'm coming on here to ask my fellow experienced pilots at Envoy not recruiting. Because i understand they could say anything to seal the deal. I don't blame them, recruiters sometimes work with limited info. So they can't provide certain answers. Answers which may work against sealing the deal.
I need the truth here. I feel like i wasnt given the full truth. A few pgs back i read that its more like 7-9 months of seniority in ORD E145 to bid and hold (transfer to) to DFW E145. Not "out of IOE you'll most likely be able to hold DFW." Don't tell me what i want to hear, tell me the truth.
Which is the truth? PLEASE ADVISE.
I'll be taking a look at the other regional offers now, due to these changes. Envoy was my #1 choice. Not sure now.
Sent from my Samsung Note7 using Tapatalk
Last edited by SilentLurker; 08-31-2016 at 01:54 PM.
08-31-2016, 01:48 PM
#4703
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by SilentLurker
I am suppose to be in Sept class, and due to recent changes which strongly disappoints me as i expected and interviewed to get DFW base.
E175 would have been nice, but i would take the E145 to be based in DFW and limit my commute, in fact i was planning to move to DFW for better QOL.
Now, after hiring for DFW all summer and during the time i applied, Pilot Recruitment Administrator says only ORD is being offered in September. Also she said that the Newhire class Monday all are going to ORD, that I should expect that for all of September also.
I Agreeed to take the next class, due to these changes I WILL be looking at the other 3 airline offers i recieved, as they have the base I want.
I'd hate to be based in ORD. As i'm purley focused on QOL and base assignment. Envoy seems to be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of Recruitment! IT JUST STARTED GROWING AND STABLIZING.
I would love seniority at Envoy DFW base, flowing in 7-8 yrs down the line does not bother me (personal preference) as mass hiring will occure btw 2019-2025 anyways. Each person is different and have different needs. Mine is not to move to ORD or commute 3:30 mins to ORD from the SW.
I was told i can bid for DFW E145 after IOE while based in ORD and i should no problem getting it.
I honestly feel like i'm being lied to. So i'm coming on here to ask my fellow experienced pilots at Envoy not in recruiting what the truth is.
A few pgs back i read that its more like 7-9 months of seniority in ORD E145 to bid and hold (transfer to) to DFW E145.
Which is the truth? PLEASE ADVISE.
I'll be taking a look at the other regional offers now.
Sent from my Samsung Note7 using Tapatalk
E175 would have been nice, but i would take the E145 to be based in DFW and limit my commute, in fact i was planning to move to DFW for better QOL.
Now, after hiring for DFW all summer and during the time i applied, Pilot Recruitment Administrator says only ORD is being offered in September. Also she said that the Newhire class Monday all are going to ORD, that I should expect that for all of September also.
I Agreeed to take the next class, due to these changes I WILL be looking at the other 3 airline offers i recieved, as they have the base I want.
I'd hate to be based in ORD. As i'm purley focused on QOL and base assignment. Envoy seems to be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of Recruitment! IT JUST STARTED GROWING AND STABLIZING.
I would love seniority at Envoy DFW base, flowing in 7-8 yrs down the line does not bother me (personal preference) as mass hiring will occure btw 2019-2025 anyways. Each person is different and have different needs. Mine is not to move to ORD or commute 3:30 mins to ORD from the SW.
I was told i can bid for DFW E145 after IOE while based in ORD and i should no problem getting it.
I honestly feel like i'm being lied to. So i'm coming on here to ask my fellow experienced pilots at Envoy not in recruiting what the truth is.
A few pgs back i read that its more like 7-9 months of seniority in ORD E145 to bid and hold (transfer to) to DFW E145.
Which is the truth? PLEASE ADVISE.
I'll be taking a look at the other regional offers now.
Sent from my Samsung Note7 using Tapatalk
Ord as a base is rough, mid day schedules on all airlines don't exsist. So either you get done early and get home early, or finish any other time and get home late. The airport itself is old, dirty, and the worst food court. Yet for some reason I stay, I must be a battered pilot.
08-31-2016, 01:56 PM
#4704
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 501
New Envoy Information
I can't stand ORD. I'm on my way back to DFW and not looking back.
Schedules suck. Staffing is horrible. It's like a black hole. You can't escape it some days. The commute is okay. Everything else is borderline torture.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Schedules suck. Staffing is horrible. It's like a black hole. You can't escape it some days. The commute is okay. Everything else is borderline torture.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
08-31-2016, 02:04 PM
#4705
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 51
Originally Posted by SilentLurker
I am suppose to be in Sept class, and due to recent changes which strongly disappoints me as i expected and interviewed to get DFW base.
E175 would have been nice, but i would take the E145 to be based in DFW and limit my commute, in fact i was planning to move to DFW for better QOL.
Now, after hiring for DFW all summer and during the time i applied, Pilot Recruitment Administrator says only ORD is being offered in September. Also she said that the Newhire class Monday all are going to ORD, that I should expect that for all of September also.
I Agreeed to take the next class, due to these changes I WILL be looking at the other 3 airline offers i recieved, as they have the base I want.
I'd hate to be based in ORD. As i'm purley focused on QOL and base assignment. Envoy seems to be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of Recruitment! IT JUST STARTED GROWING AND STABLIZING.
I would love seniority at Envoy DFW base, flowing in 7-8 yrs down the line does not bother me (personal preference) as mass hiring will occure btw 2019-2025 anyways. Each person is different and have different needs. Mine is not to move to ORD or commute 3:30 mins to ORD from the SW.
I was told i can bid for DFW E145 after IOE while based in ORD and i should no problem getting it.
I honestly feel like i'm being lied to. So i'm coming on here to ask my fellow experienced pilots at Envoy not recruiting. Because i understand they could say anything to seal the deal. I don't blame them, recruiters sometimes work with limited info. So they can't provide certain answers. Answers which may work against sealing the deal.
I need the truth here. I feel like i wasnt given the full truth. A few pgs back i read that its more like 7-9 months of seniority in ORD E145 to bid and hold (transfer to) to DFW E145. Not "out of IOE you'll most likely be able to hold DFW." Don't tell me what i want to hear, tell me the truth.
Which is the truth? PLEASE ADVISE.
I'll be taking a look at the other regional offers now, due to these changes. Envoy was my #1 choice. Not sure now.
Sent from my Samsung Note7 using Tapatalk
E175 would have been nice, but i would take the E145 to be based in DFW and limit my commute, in fact i was planning to move to DFW for better QOL.
Now, after hiring for DFW all summer and during the time i applied, Pilot Recruitment Administrator says only ORD is being offered in September. Also she said that the Newhire class Monday all are going to ORD, that I should expect that for all of September also.
I Agreeed to take the next class, due to these changes I WILL be looking at the other 3 airline offers i recieved, as they have the base I want.
I'd hate to be based in ORD. As i'm purley focused on QOL and base assignment. Envoy seems to be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of Recruitment! IT JUST STARTED GROWING AND STABLIZING.
I would love seniority at Envoy DFW base, flowing in 7-8 yrs down the line does not bother me (personal preference) as mass hiring will occure btw 2019-2025 anyways. Each person is different and have different needs. Mine is not to move to ORD or commute 3:30 mins to ORD from the SW.
I was told i can bid for DFW E145 after IOE while based in ORD and i should no problem getting it.
I honestly feel like i'm being lied to. So i'm coming on here to ask my fellow experienced pilots at Envoy not recruiting. Because i understand they could say anything to seal the deal. I don't blame them, recruiters sometimes work with limited info. So they can't provide certain answers. Answers which may work against sealing the deal.
I need the truth here. I feel like i wasnt given the full truth. A few pgs back i read that its more like 7-9 months of seniority in ORD E145 to bid and hold (transfer to) to DFW E145. Not "out of IOE you'll most likely be able to hold DFW." Don't tell me what i want to hear, tell me the truth.
Which is the truth? PLEASE ADVISE.
I'll be taking a look at the other regional offers now, due to these changes. Envoy was my #1 choice. Not sure now.
Sent from my Samsung Note7 using Tapatalk
08-31-2016, 02:05 PM
#4706
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Position: E175
Posts: 686
Originally Posted by SilentLurker
I am suppose to be in Sept class, and due to recent changes which strongly disappoints me as i expected and interviewed to get DFW base.
E175 would have been nice, but i would take the E145 to be based in DFW and limit my commute, in fact i was planning to move to DFW for better QOL.
Now, after hiring for DFW all summer and during the time i applied, Pilot Recruitment Administrator says only ORD is being offered in September. Also she said that the Newhire class Monday all are going to ORD, that I should expect that for all of September also.
I Agreeed to take the next class, due to these changes I WILL be looking at the other 3 airline offers i recieved, as they have the base I want.
I'd hate to be based in ORD. As i'm purley focused on QOL and base assignment. Envoy seems to be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of Recruitment! IT JUST STARTED GROWING AND STABLIZING.
I would love seniority at Envoy DFW base, flowing in 7-8 yrs down the line does not bother me (personal preference) as mass hiring will occure btw 2019-2025 anyways. Each person is different and have different needs. Mine is not to move to ORD or commute 3:30 mins to ORD from the SW.
I was told i can bid for DFW E145 after IOE while based in ORD and i should no problem getting it.
I honestly feel like i'm being lied to. So i'm coming on here to ask my fellow experienced pilots at Envoy not recruiting. Because i understand they could say anything to seal the deal. I don't blame them, recruiters sometimes work with limited info. So they can't provide certain answers. Answers which may work against sealing the deal.
I need the truth here. I feel like i wasnt given the full truth. A few pgs back i read that its more like 7-9 months of seniority in ORD E145 to bid and hold (transfer to) to DFW E145. Not "out of IOE you'll most likely be able to hold DFW." Don't tell me what i want to hear, tell me the truth.
Which is the truth? PLEASE ADVISE.
I'll be taking a look at the other regional offers now, due to these changes. Envoy was my #1 choice. Not sure now.
Sent from my Samsung Note7 using Tapatalk
E175 would have been nice, but i would take the E145 to be based in DFW and limit my commute, in fact i was planning to move to DFW for better QOL.
Now, after hiring for DFW all summer and during the time i applied, Pilot Recruitment Administrator says only ORD is being offered in September. Also she said that the Newhire class Monday all are going to ORD, that I should expect that for all of September also.
I Agreeed to take the next class, due to these changes I WILL be looking at the other 3 airline offers i recieved, as they have the base I want.
I'd hate to be based in ORD. As i'm purley focused on QOL and base assignment. Envoy seems to be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of Recruitment! IT JUST STARTED GROWING AND STABLIZING.
I would love seniority at Envoy DFW base, flowing in 7-8 yrs down the line does not bother me (personal preference) as mass hiring will occure btw 2019-2025 anyways. Each person is different and have different needs. Mine is not to move to ORD or commute 3:30 mins to ORD from the SW.
I was told i can bid for DFW E145 after IOE while based in ORD and i should no problem getting it.
I honestly feel like i'm being lied to. So i'm coming on here to ask my fellow experienced pilots at Envoy not recruiting. Because i understand they could say anything to seal the deal. I don't blame them, recruiters sometimes work with limited info. So they can't provide certain answers. Answers which may work against sealing the deal.
I need the truth here. I feel like i wasnt given the full truth. A few pgs back i read that its more like 7-9 months of seniority in ORD E145 to bid and hold (transfer to) to DFW E145. Not "out of IOE you'll most likely be able to hold DFW." Don't tell me what i want to hear, tell me the truth.
Which is the truth? PLEASE ADVISE.
I'll be taking a look at the other regional offers now, due to these changes. Envoy was my #1 choice. Not sure now.
Sent from my Samsung Note7 using Tapatalk
They will tell you what you want to hear. Its just like buying a vehicle.
As long as you are aware of it, you should be fine. Have you check MESA? They have a DFW base with faster upgrades.
08-31-2016, 02:17 PM
#4708
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Position: FO
Posts: 793
Originally Posted by highflyer1980
I can't stand ORD. I'm on my way back to DFW and not looking back.
Schedules suck. Staffing is horrible. It's like a black hole. You can't escape it some days. The commute is okay. Everything else is borderline torture.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Schedules suck. Staffing is horrible. It's like a black hole. You can't escape it some days. The commute is okay. Everything else is borderline torture.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Any kind of detailed info abt this would be greatly appreciated (except from the routine infamous debie downers who bicker immaturely, i perfer those folks not reply & start another uprising).
Thanks all.
Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk
08-31-2016, 02:32 PM
#4709
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Position: 737
Posts: 268
Originally Posted by go skers
Based on the seniority list from mid July
2001-84
No hiring 9/3/01-1/3/04
2004-104
2005-58
2006-106
2007-222
2008-124
No hiring 5/12/08-3/15/10
2010-98
2011-271
2013/current-352
The "824" group that gets to carry their vacation and sick accrual rates and get 50% metered to 30/month comes to an end sometime early summer 2017 and the switches to the protected pilot group which flows at 50% metered to 25/month. That agreement essentially covers pilots hired through 2011. From 2013 onward it comes out to around 15/month, the agreements are posted on the APC profile page if you really want to get into the deep stuff.
If AA hires consistently it'll take:
9 months to cover the 824 agreement (30/mo)
36 months to cover PP agreement (25/mo)
28 months 2013-present (15-10/mo variable based on size)
6 years to flow is in the general ballpark. Attrition at Envoy and random months of no hiring at AA could move those numbers in either direction. Typically the closer a pilot is to flowing the less likely they are to go elsewhere. CA attrition outside of flow is usually single digits per month. CA upgrade seems to be the cutoff where attrition drops.
Zombie apocalypses, unforeseen economic collapses and theories about management stopping the flow altogether could change it even more but good luck predicting those things.
2001-84
No hiring 9/3/01-1/3/04
2004-104
2005-58
2006-106
2007-222
2008-124
No hiring 5/12/08-3/15/10
2010-98
2011-271
2013/current-352
The "824" group that gets to carry their vacation and sick accrual rates and get 50% metered to 30/month comes to an end sometime early summer 2017 and the switches to the protected pilot group which flows at 50% metered to 25/month. That agreement essentially covers pilots hired through 2011. From 2013 onward it comes out to around 15/month, the agreements are posted on the APC profile page if you really want to get into the deep stuff.
If AA hires consistently it'll take:
9 months to cover the 824 agreement (30/mo)
36 months to cover PP agreement (25/mo)
28 months 2013-present (15-10/mo variable based on size)
6 years to flow is in the general ballpark. Attrition at Envoy and random months of no hiring at AA could move those numbers in either direction. Typically the closer a pilot is to flowing the less likely they are to go elsewhere. CA attrition outside of flow is usually single digits per month. CA upgrade seems to be the cutoff where attrition drops.
Zombie apocalypses, unforeseen economic collapses and theories about management stopping the flow altogether could change it even more but good luck predicting those things.
For the visual people, this is the chart recruitment uses in a marketing brochure:
Flow Chart.pdf
EDIT: Can't seem to find a way to attach the high resolution version. Standby 1...
RE-EDIT: Attached as .pdf
Last edited by inky13; 08-31-2016 at 02:45 PM.
08-31-2016, 02:37 PM
#4710
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by SilentLurker
I am suppose to be in Sept class, and due to recent changes which strongly disappoints me as i expected and interviewed to get DFW base.
E175 would have been nice, but i would take the E145 to be based in DFW and limit my commute, in fact i was planning to move to DFW for better QOL.
Now, after hiring for DFW all summer and during the time i applied, Pilot Recruitment Administrator says only ORD is being offered in September. Also she said that the Newhire class Monday all are going to ORD, that I should expect that for all of September also.
I Agreeed to take the next class, due to these changes I WILL be looking at the other 3 airline offers i recieved, as they have the base I want.
I'd hate to be based in ORD. As i'm purley focused on QOL and base assignment. Envoy seems to be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of Recruitment! IT JUST STARTED GROWING AND STABLIZING.
I would love seniority at Envoy DFW base, flowing in 7-8 yrs down the line does not bother me (personal preference) as mass hiring will occure btw 2019-2025 anyways. Each person is different and have different needs. Mine is not to move to ORD or commute 3:30 mins to ORD from the SW.
I was told i can bid for DFW E145 after IOE while based in ORD and i should no problem getting it.
I honestly feel like i'm being lied to. So i'm coming on here to ask my fellow experienced pilots at Envoy not recruiting. Because i understand they could say anything to seal the deal. I don't blame them, recruiters sometimes work with limited info. So they can't provide certain answers. Answers which may work against sealing the deal.
I need the truth here. I feel like i wasnt given the full truth. A few pgs back i read that its more like 7-9 months of seniority in ORD E145 to bid and hold (transfer to) to DFW E145. Not "out of IOE you'll most likely be able to hold DFW." Don't tell me what i want to hear, tell me the truth.
Which is the truth? PLEASE ADVISE.
I'll be taking a look at the other regional offers now, due to these changes. Envoy was my #1 choice. Not sure now.
Sent from my Samsung Note7 using Tapatalk
E175 would have been nice, but i would take the E145 to be based in DFW and limit my commute, in fact i was planning to move to DFW for better QOL.
Now, after hiring for DFW all summer and during the time i applied, Pilot Recruitment Administrator says only ORD is being offered in September. Also she said that the Newhire class Monday all are going to ORD, that I should expect that for all of September also.
I Agreeed to take the next class, due to these changes I WILL be looking at the other 3 airline offers i recieved, as they have the base I want.
I'd hate to be based in ORD. As i'm purley focused on QOL and base assignment. Envoy seems to be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of Recruitment! IT JUST STARTED GROWING AND STABLIZING.
I would love seniority at Envoy DFW base, flowing in 7-8 yrs down the line does not bother me (personal preference) as mass hiring will occure btw 2019-2025 anyways. Each person is different and have different needs. Mine is not to move to ORD or commute 3:30 mins to ORD from the SW.
I was told i can bid for DFW E145 after IOE while based in ORD and i should no problem getting it.
I honestly feel like i'm being lied to. So i'm coming on here to ask my fellow experienced pilots at Envoy not recruiting. Because i understand they could say anything to seal the deal. I don't blame them, recruiters sometimes work with limited info. So they can't provide certain answers. Answers which may work against sealing the deal.
I need the truth here. I feel like i wasnt given the full truth. A few pgs back i read that its more like 7-9 months of seniority in ORD E145 to bid and hold (transfer to) to DFW E145. Not "out of IOE you'll most likely be able to hold DFW." Don't tell me what i want to hear, tell me the truth.
Which is the truth? PLEASE ADVISE.
I'll be taking a look at the other regional offers now, due to these changes. Envoy was my #1 choice. Not sure now.
Sent from my Samsung Note7 using Tapatalk
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