waker92

I agree, there are good points made. Personally I am planning to move from orlando, due to the fact that there is no regional opportunities in florida for me. I am not here trying to say "if 2.5/6 doesn't happen I'm gone!" but instead I am looking to find out if thats gonna be more like 7/15. Obviously you never know for sure, but I would not want to loose that bet, if I have a safer chance of going to PSA, (at admittedly a worse base for me as Chicago is home) to go for the sub 2 year upgrade.

I am aware that the true "short upgrades" are marked towards those with the 121 qualifications, as if someone has zero 121 time it will take them about a year and a half to get the 1000 hours with reserve and such. And as I have no 121 experience I will gladly trade a 1.5-2 year upgrade for a 3-3.5 year upgrade if envoy is offering it. But I worry about being an FO at envoy for the long term just because I was too fixated on the elusive F-L-O-W.

SkyWago

I moved from Orlando a few years ago. MCO-NY commute wasn't bad but knew a change was coming so now in DFW.

Apply and talk to a bunch of the HR's office people at the various operations. They all are going to sell hard, but it is nice to have 4 solid offers and options then just 1.

eaglefly

Hundreds wont be flowing. I know a bunch of them and many have 5-15 years to age 65, so hundreds will still be there. How would RAH be "F-ing up the party for everyone" with new rates ?

Are you saying LOWER rates dragging others down in reverse pattern bargaing ?

PilotJ3

If by Hundreds, you mean 250-300? Yes you're right.

Now since you don't have access to the list, I will say that most of the guys in the 824 decision page have "accept when offered".

There are even Sr guys that now want to go into AA. Even guys retiring in a couple of months are burning 824 numbers, so they can go and have better benefits.

I would say that someone with 10 to 15 yrs before 65, will make more money in AA than Envoy. I've flow with various 50-55 yr guys that want to go to AA.

eaglefly

Yes, that's what I meant by "hundreds". According to another there, Envoy is supposedly going to shrink to 1500 pilots (shrinking is never great for upgrades as it is and that's about 600 pilots LESS then present). That's 750 captains, so 1/3 of Envoy's captains list for a significant future won't generate typical upgrade movement. If Envoy shrinks more, that's even worse.

Just something to consider for anyone considering Envoy. Again, the questions revolve around the numbers and claims jibing and adding up. I don't think they do, at least not a very high likelihood of a 2.5 year upgrade for a new-hire of today.

CFI21

Hey all! What is the current plane/base for new hires? I heard ORD and the -700 but I've also heard it was the ERJ-145 out of ORD. thanks! Sorry for the typical newbie question

FlameNSky

Currently, that is the case. They will be announcing in the coming months that the 175 will be based in ORD as well. All the current pilots awarded the 175 are scheduled to be on the line around the March/April time frame so I would guess that they will be putting new hires in that aircraft in the FEB classes. We never know what will be offered though, until that first day of class.


Directed Generally:

To be clear, the only person in our company or union that have suggested a 2 1/2 year upgrade is our Director of Flight Ops and the Envoy Haters. Even our Union has publically stated that they 2.5 year upgrade doesn't add up and asked our Director to back up his claim. The 6 year flow does have logical support based on AA retirements. (the numbers have been previously posted and can be searched) It could be 7 years, it could be 5 years. Yes some things will effect it one way or the other. Single List Integration & PBS will cause AA to need less pilots but their effects will be minimal compared to the huge retirement numbers. More evident that eaglefly is a disgruntled man on a vendetta. He loves to point out that things can inhibit the flow but not a word about the fact that AA is actually slated to GROW 2-3% next year and that the CEO has openly discussed adding additional Airbus A320 to cover the failing regional feed. They have also delayed the retirement of the S80 fleet to meet these regional limitations. All these things mean more flow for envoy. He would also not like for anyone to know that, while UA & DA are hiring younger pilots, half of AA "new hires" are ~ 50 year old flow throughs who will be retired in 15 years or less along with most of AA Captains. For a envoy new hire today, even if its takes a little longer to flow to AA, over half of the FOs senior to them will be retiring within 6 or 7 more years. This continued seniority movement is unique to AA due to the Flow Through program.

Yes, envoy's upgrade times are based on new hire numbers. That is the case with every regional airline out there. The Envoy haters like to talk as if this is a problem only at envoy but this is a possibility at any company that a person would choose to go. envoy can guarantee that half of AA new hire slots will be given to envoy pilots. What other regional can guarantee their Captains will be moving on each and every month in those numbers? For a man that loves to talk about "no guarantee" so much, a well rounded public activist like eaglefly never mentions that.

MAXforwardspeed

Did the DFW EMB captains that had been displaced back to FO's get a chance to upgrade yet?

FlameNSky

Yes All have regained their seat.

adspilot

Both are happening. Looks like a little more heavily on the CRJ side though.