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First 121 IOE

Old 12-01-2015, 06:51 AM
  #41  
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One thing I remember from CA OE is being told to program the FMS a specific way and run MY flow HIS way.

Take a deep breath, smile, and...

Cooperate to Graduate
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:12 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Erich518 View Post
Always pulled wing low in the E175 as well, never had an issue and flight safety taught it to me that way. I think 15* bank is when the book said you'd start scraping metal. Got to the CRJ and the sim instructor had a fit when I tried to land it wing low. I think it depends on the amount of wing sweep as the CRJ sweeps more than the 175, idk what the wing sweep in the 145 is but it looks fairly shallow.
It has to do with ground clearance... The CRJ's wing is much lower to the ground. The 700/900 you can get away with a LITTLE wing dip, but the 200 you can't really at all... They say over 5 degrees bank you risk a wing strike. I could land Citabrias and Skyhawks all day long with a 20 knot crosswind. Now put me in the CRJ-200, and it's a bit of a challenge timing it right to kick it straight right before touch down using ailerons to keep the wings level and prevent any side load.

My IOE was a lot of fun. The LCAs I flew with were very laid back and helpful. I had found my way from holding on to the tail to the back row of seats by the end of the first day. The biggest challenge was doing all my training in the 200, and doing IOE on the 700. The 700 lands very different. Fortunately though the 700 legs were long enough to have some chat in cruise, ask my LCA a bunch of questions, and get caught up with the plane. By the 3rd day of IOE the Captain was having me
fly all the legs I wanted. I hand flew a lot on departure and arrival. I still do hand fly a ton. It's a valuable skill to keep sharp.

After IOE, I was fortunate enough to already be awarded a base with a very senior captain group. These captains were and have been great mentors during my first year in the 121 world.
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:32 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by CloudShredder View Post
It has to do with ground clearance... The CRJ's wing is much lower to the ground. The 700/900 you can get away with a LITTLE wing dip, but the 200 you can't really at all... They say over 5 degrees bank you risk a wing strike. I could land Citabrias and Skyhawks all day long with a 20 knot crosswind. Now put me in the CRJ-200, and it's a bit of a challenge timing it right to kick it straight right before touch down using ailerons to keep the wings level and prevent any side load.

.
Flying the RJ now and I see a lot of fear over the crosswind wing scrape... but the training folks say that the problem is striking the DOWNWIND wing after landing and that significant upwind aileron has to be added on touchdown. After flying the airplane a while I see where this issue comes from: People are afraid to put in a little bank angle into the wind on touchdown. They end up touching down with some wind drift, which induces a downwind rolling moment as the airplane straightens itself....land it like normal: straighten it out, and add a little upwind aileron to prevent drift, and its a non-issue. Its as if the fear of the wing scrape thus increases the risk of a wing scrape. Bizarre.
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:49 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by M20EPilot View Post
Flying the RJ now and I see a lot of fear over the crosswind wing scrape... but the training folks say that the problem is striking the DOWNWIND wing after landing and that significant upwind aileron has to be added on touchdown. After flying the airplane a while I see where this issue comes from: People are afraid to put in a little bank angle into the wind on touchdown. They end up touching down with some wind drift, which induces a downwind rolling moment as the airplane straightens itself....land it like normal: straighten it out, and add a little upwind aileron to prevent drift, and its a non-issue. Its as if the fear of the wing scrape thus increases the risk of a wing scrape. Bizarre.
Yeah the other side of it, is that guys put in too much aileron when kicking it straight and the upwind wing starts to head for the pavement, they react too harshly and take out too much aileron and therein lies the problem as well of the downwind wing being scrapped. OR they kick it straight and don't put in enough aileron and the downwind wing strikes as you are saying. You just gotta get a feel for it and fly the plane. It's a lot of fun once you figure out the control pressures and can truly feel the plane.
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Old 12-03-2015, 03:49 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by CloudShredder View Post
Yeah the other side of it, is that guys put in too much aileron when kicking it straight and the upwind wing starts to head for the pavement, they react too harshly and take out too much aileron and therein lies the problem as well of the downwind wing being scrapped. OR they kick it straight and don't put in enough aileron and the downwind wing strikes as you are saying. You just gotta get a feel for it and fly the plane. It's a lot of fun once you figure out the control pressures and can truly feel the plane.
I'm new to the CRJ specifically the 200, and you've summed up my landings and gave me something to think about. The sim is definitely a bit different from the real airplane and I find myself being scared to put the little bank angle needed right before we touch down just because I don't want to scrape the wing. Today for example, everything looked great, 30ft started rounding out and kicked the left rudder in to straighten it out, but didn't have enough opposite aileron in and she wanted to roll to the left right before we touched down. I'm guessing it's something that comes with time maybe and having a good technique.

As far as my IOE I finished up early last month. I'm pretty sure I gave my first captain the blues. I kept up with the plane but I was nervous and not too confident , not to mention being tired from commuting in on a redeye (stupid mistake) but I made it. Second day We started at 0630 and didn't get done til 1830. I was definitely fatigued on the last leg and zoned out. The captain was definitely good and liked to do a lot of small detailed things. He was an ex Pinnacle guy. My second IOE captain was an ex XJ guy, He was also very good and showed me some tricks when it came to certain things rather than using mental math, at that point I was starting to get more relaxed but still nervous, but finally understood all the ques when it came to the ACARS, getting weather, etc. We worked on landing which i'm glad we did, I got comfortable enough to stop worrying about how fast we we're going coming over the numbers and that stopped me from focusing on one spot on the runway, and got me to start looking further down to stay on centerline vs me looking at one spot on the runway. Overall it was a good experience and i'm happy my first IOE captain was a bit hard on me, molded me in those two days and taught me a lot.
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Old 12-03-2015, 07:16 PM
  #46  
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You just openly admitted on a public forum to flying fatigued on a Series of 121 flights, while on IOE.. That scares the bejeezus out of me...

You are required to sign the release for each leg attesting to the fact that you are "fit for duty" per 14 CFR 117 and 121. Please Think about that very seriously. Think about the passengers you are flying around. They TRUST and expect a safe flight each and every time, no exceptions....
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Old 12-03-2015, 07:56 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by PerfInit View Post
You just openly admitted on a public forum to flying fatigued on a Series of 121 flights, while on IOE.. That scares the bejeezus out of me...

You are required to sign the release for each leg attesting to the fact that you are "fit for duty" per 14 CFR 117 and 121. Please Think about that very seriously. Think about the passengers you are flying around. They TRUST and expect a safe flight each and every time, no exceptions....
Yea my IOE schedule was packed the second day. I should've got myself off the last turn that day and let OE scheduling deal with it. Definitely something I wouldn't do again, just not worth it.
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Old 12-04-2015, 04:35 AM
  #48  
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Part of professionalism in the 121 world is taking positive steps to be fit for duty each and every time. If you are not 100% rested and fit, then you are either sick or fatigued and cannot legally exercise the privileges of your pilot certificate. A good study of the Colgan accident will open your eyes in this area. Highly recommend planning your commutes accordingly. Doing a red-eye and then Napping in the crew lounge will not suffice.

Did the check airman discuss this with you during IOE? I am wondering why he did not recognize your condition and take appropriate action?
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Old 12-04-2015, 05:53 PM
  #49  
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"Recognize your condition"... Smh
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Old 12-04-2015, 05:59 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by PerfInit View Post
Part of professionalism in the 121 world is taking positive steps to be fit for duty each and every time. If you are not 100% rested and fit, then you are either sick or fatigued and cannot legally exercise the privileges of your pilot certificate. A good study of the Colgan accident will open your eyes in this area. Highly recommend planning your commutes accordingly. Doing a red-eye and then Napping in the crew lounge will not suffice.

Did the check airman discuss this with you during IOE? I am wondering why he did not recognize your condition and take appropriate action?
Seriously?
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