MikefromMT

We've got an interesting discussion going about this restriction.

From my view, "vmc" references line of sight to the runway during a circle and I wouldn't think cloud clearances apply as you are still on an instrument procedure however my buddy pointed to the definition of VMC.

Visual meteorological conditions (VMC) means meteorological conditions expressed in terms of visibility, distance from clouds, and ceiling equal to or better than specified minima.

His argument is that we need to adhere to the cloud clearances while circling.

Does anyone have a reference that states that distance from clouds does not matter while circling?

WestCoastFlyr

Distance from clouds is only defined in terms of operating under VFR as far as I know. A circle to land maneuver is conducted under IFR, just like a visual approach. A visual approach does not require any distance from clouds in any type of airspace, just to remain clear. Only caveat would be if distance from clouds is required per your ops specs.

vtpilot

I believe that to be cleared for a visual approach, the ceiling has to be at least 500 feet above the minimum vectoring altitude (MVA).

BlueMoon

Please, Check your opspecs for visual approach. Ours require in order to accept a visual approach we must maintain cloud clearance in accordance with 91.155.

Your opspecs will also say what cloud clearance is required for circle to land.

WestCoastFlyr

I have never heard of this before. If this were true then cloud ceilings would probably have to be at least 2500' AGL at all radar airports, and visual approaches would be unauthorized at most non-radar airports. AIM 5-4-23 spells out visual approach requirements very specifically:

5-4-23. Visual Approach

a. A visual approach is conducted on an IFR flight plan and authorizes a pilot to proceed visually and clear of clouds to the airport. The pilot must have either the airport or the preceding identified aircraft in sight. This approach must be authorized and controlled by the appropriate air traffic control facility. Reported weather at the airport must have a ceiling at or above 1,000 feet and visibility 3 miles or greater. ATC may authorize this type approach when it will be operationally beneficial. Visual approaches are an IFR procedure conducted under IFR in visual meteorological conditions. Cloud clearance requirements of 14 CFR Section 91.155 are not applicable, unless required by operation specifications.


Unless there is something in the ATC handbook that I am unaware of, I don't see any mention of an MVA cloud clearance minimum.

WestCoastFlyr

It is in our ops specs too to require cloud clearance for a visual approach. However, our ops specs specifically authorize only "clear of clouds" for a circle to land maneuver, to try and answer the original question.

Coneydog

This^^^. A circling approach is a visual approach on an IFR flight plan. Having positive contact with the ground (runway) is not the same thing as VMC. Remain clear of clouds and maintain visual contact with runway.

vtpilot

I was mistaken. I was thinking of this:

To provide “vectors” for a visual approach, the reported ceiling at the landing field must be at least 500 feet above the MVA.

Mythbuster

With this restriction on your type rating, you can not circle to land if the reported conditions at the airport are less than VMC (1000 ft. ceiling and 3 miles visibility). It has nothing to do with a visual approach, being able to maintain visual contact with the airport or being clear of clouds.
You can also tell if the airport is below VMC if the green/white beacon is on during daylight hours.

word302

A circle to land "maneuver" is not a visual approach.