Your thoughts for a potential career changer?
08-25-2016, 03:49 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: Airplane
Posts: 683
It's not that bad. Some people will make the worst out of anything. I'm raising a family of four, At the age of 28 single family income, And we are happy as can be. Great money and time off. Life gives you the hand you are supposed to be delt. Unfortunately, it's not equal for everyone.
08-26-2016, 07:11 AM
#53
MK Ultra Candidate
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: Prime Leader of Boko Harumph
Posts: 1,167
Originally Posted by Fourpaw
It's not that bad. Some people will make the worst out of anything. I'm raising a family of four, At the age of 28 single family income, And we are happy as can be. Great money and time off. Life gives you the hand you are supposed to be delt. Unfortunately, it's not equal for everyone.
Or they might prefer you gone.......
08-26-2016, 07:18 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: Airplane
Posts: 683
Originally Posted by ClickClickBoom
Ask your kids in 5 years, how they like it.....
Or they might prefer you gone.......
Or they might prefer you gone.......
I used to take then with me when I did corporate. My wife also supports my job and doesn't bad mouth me and my profession when I'm gone. As I said, all in how you look at it...half full or empty.
Just saw your other comment, they love it when I'm home because that means they'll get to.have fun. IE fairs and carnivals, games, even just heading into town and farting around. Nuclear family here.
*Drops the Mike*
08-26-2016, 07:21 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by Fourpaw
Okay I'll pm you in five years with their answers. My kids are 4 and 6 and grew up with me being a pilot...it's all they know. They love airplanes and flying and love it when we travel places, about once a month or so depending on the schedule that month.
I used to take then with me when I did corporate. My wife also supports my job and doesn't bad mouth me and my profession when I'm gone. As I said, all in how you look at it...half full or empty.
*Drops the Mike*
I used to take then with me when I did corporate. My wife also supports my job and doesn't bad mouth me and my profession when I'm gone. As I said, all in how you look at it...half full or empty.
*Drops the Mike*
08-26-2016, 02:22 PM
#56
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by Fourpaw
Okay I'll pm you in five years with their answers. My kids are 4 and 6 and grew up with me being a pilot...it's all they know. They love airplanes and flying and love it when we travel places, about once a month or so depending on the schedule that month.
I used to take then with me when I did corporate. My wife also supports my job and doesn't bad mouth me and my profession when I'm gone. As I said, all in how you look at it...half full or empty.
Just saw your other comment, they love it when I'm home because that means they'll get to.have fun. IE fairs and carnivals, games, even just heading into town and farting around. Nuclear family here.
*Drops the Mike*
I used to take then with me when I did corporate. My wife also supports my job and doesn't bad mouth me and my profession when I'm gone. As I said, all in how you look at it...half full or empty.
Just saw your other comment, they love it when I'm home because that means they'll get to.have fun. IE fairs and carnivals, games, even just heading into town and farting around. Nuclear family here.
*Drops the Mike*
I hope you didn't drop Mike, he is a good guy.
08-30-2016, 05:19 AM
#57
New Hire
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 8
Interesting reading all the comments here and surprised (but not really) at some of the highly negative comments. Especially RyanP. If you are in that bad of a state, then you really should consider a career change.
If you don't mind, I will give you my take and welcome any comments. I too am working on this career change. I have spent 27 years in the private sector within a couple of different industries and am looking to do something different. I am one of those that love aviation having grown up around it and will probably be one of the guys reading aviation magazines in the crew lounge. And I'll most likely be one of the older guys in class at 52 and am looking forward to the experience.
I already have a CTP class date in early Sep followed by CRJ school immediately after. Not looking forward to the multiple weeks gone from home, but I know it is a one time deal to get the signoff. The great thing is that my wife is 100% in support of this decision and I will live at my base in Chicago. Hopefully that can last until we decide to relocate. We live in a great community that is actually not all that far from ORD - maybe 20 mins, so I am hoping this will offset some of the less desireable aspects of being a Jr. FO. My goal is to put in my time as FO, learn as much as I can (having fun while I am learning), and upgrade to CA in 2 years or so (projected time for an ORD CRJ CA). Fly as CA on the CRJ for a couple of years and review options.
I know that regional life is constantly in flux, so my "plan" will most likely change multiple times. However, the goal of getting a type rating or two and a 000's of hours turbine time should pan out. I think I would like a flow to the majors, but could it be possible that I actually like being at my regional? Maybe... I am certainly not ruling that out. Also, I have a friend who flies for UPS, so that is in the back of my mind also for some years down the road, although I am fully aware that is a tough seat to get. Understanding the current pilot shortage is only going to get worse, should create a better environment (i.e. flow to where you want to go) for pilots, no?
Regarding the 9-5 corporate world, DO NOT fool yourself about the security there. First of all, I don't know any of my former colleagues who worked 9-5 or even 8-5. Plus, no job is secure any longer and management will cut heads at the drop of a hat. No reason needed, just "going in a different direction." It could be to bolster their position with senior management or to cut costs (see previous) or any other reason that may or may not be performance related. And they will do this without warning or a "work out" program no matter how good a performer the person is or his/her tenure with the company. And if you are lucky to keep your job, then long work days are the norm, not the exception. It is the way of the world today. Not many jobs are safe and cushy any longer.
If you think an airline pilot's schedule is long and hard, so are many coporate positions, one of those being in a national business development or sales management role. I used to do it and I see my neighbor gone many weekends and typically most of the week. Early Mon departures and late Fri arrivals - almost every week. Sucks, but you do what you have to do. I actually didn't mind the travel as I got to see lots of different customers and parts of the country, but it did get tiresome sometimes.
That said, it is time for a change and I am looking forward to it. I do not know exactly where it will lead, but I am ready for all possibilities. Saying this tongue firmly in cheek, but I look at it like this - it won't be much different than my previous business travel - gone for 3 (or many 4) nights, hotels, airport and restaurant meals, airline travel - except the TSA lines are shorter and I get the best seat in the house. Well, that is how I am looking at it to start. Carry on....
If you don't mind, I will give you my take and welcome any comments. I too am working on this career change. I have spent 27 years in the private sector within a couple of different industries and am looking to do something different. I am one of those that love aviation having grown up around it and will probably be one of the guys reading aviation magazines in the crew lounge. And I'll most likely be one of the older guys in class at 52 and am looking forward to the experience.
I already have a CTP class date in early Sep followed by CRJ school immediately after. Not looking forward to the multiple weeks gone from home, but I know it is a one time deal to get the signoff. The great thing is that my wife is 100% in support of this decision and I will live at my base in Chicago. Hopefully that can last until we decide to relocate. We live in a great community that is actually not all that far from ORD - maybe 20 mins, so I am hoping this will offset some of the less desireable aspects of being a Jr. FO. My goal is to put in my time as FO, learn as much as I can (having fun while I am learning), and upgrade to CA in 2 years or so (projected time for an ORD CRJ CA). Fly as CA on the CRJ for a couple of years and review options.
I know that regional life is constantly in flux, so my "plan" will most likely change multiple times. However, the goal of getting a type rating or two and a 000's of hours turbine time should pan out. I think I would like a flow to the majors, but could it be possible that I actually like being at my regional? Maybe... I am certainly not ruling that out. Also, I have a friend who flies for UPS, so that is in the back of my mind also for some years down the road, although I am fully aware that is a tough seat to get. Understanding the current pilot shortage is only going to get worse, should create a better environment (i.e. flow to where you want to go) for pilots, no?
Regarding the 9-5 corporate world, DO NOT fool yourself about the security there. First of all, I don't know any of my former colleagues who worked 9-5 or even 8-5. Plus, no job is secure any longer and management will cut heads at the drop of a hat. No reason needed, just "going in a different direction." It could be to bolster their position with senior management or to cut costs (see previous) or any other reason that may or may not be performance related. And they will do this without warning or a "work out" program no matter how good a performer the person is or his/her tenure with the company. And if you are lucky to keep your job, then long work days are the norm, not the exception. It is the way of the world today. Not many jobs are safe and cushy any longer.
If you think an airline pilot's schedule is long and hard, so are many coporate positions, one of those being in a national business development or sales management role. I used to do it and I see my neighbor gone many weekends and typically most of the week. Early Mon departures and late Fri arrivals - almost every week. Sucks, but you do what you have to do. I actually didn't mind the travel as I got to see lots of different customers and parts of the country, but it did get tiresome sometimes.
That said, it is time for a change and I am looking forward to it. I do not know exactly where it will lead, but I am ready for all possibilities. Saying this tongue firmly in cheek, but I look at it like this - it won't be much different than my previous business travel - gone for 3 (or many 4) nights, hotels, airport and restaurant meals, airline travel - except the TSA lines are shorter and I get the best seat in the house. Well, that is how I am looking at it to start. Carry on....
08-30-2016, 06:01 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Posts: 443
Some people will never be happy. They aren't happy in their airline career but if they switched back to a 9-5 job you can bet it wouldn't be long before they found something to complain about there too. The grass is always greener.
As for me I have enjoyed my career so far as a regional pilot. Do I look forward to the possible future of a legacy? Absolutely. But I'm not going to live every day hating what I do now just for a hope for something better in the future. That's how you end up like RyanP above.
There are obviously very different experiences for each person. In my case, I haven't worked a weekend in nearly a year and get plenty of days off each month. This month I have 16 days off 92 hours. Next month I have 15 days off 89 hours..and I'm not even very senior.
That being said, it isn't always the norm. I have some months that I only get 12 days off.
Point is it is what you make of it. It definitely isn't the career fit for everyone but I would say on a daily basis the majority of people I fly with really enjoy what they do.
As for me I have enjoyed my career so far as a regional pilot. Do I look forward to the possible future of a legacy? Absolutely. But I'm not going to live every day hating what I do now just for a hope for something better in the future. That's how you end up like RyanP above.
There are obviously very different experiences for each person. In my case, I haven't worked a weekend in nearly a year and get plenty of days off each month. This month I have 16 days off 92 hours. Next month I have 15 days off 89 hours..and I'm not even very senior.
That being said, it isn't always the norm. I have some months that I only get 12 days off.
Point is it is what you make of it. It definitely isn't the career fit for everyone but I would say on a daily basis the majority of people I fly with really enjoy what they do.
08-30-2016, 09:45 PM
#59
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by t6dpilot
Interesting reading all the comments here and surprised (but not really) at some of the highly negative comments. Especially RyanP. If you are in that bad of a state, then you really should consider a career change.
If you don't mind, I will give you my take and welcome any comments. I too am working on this career change. I have spent 27 years in the private sector within a couple of different industries and am looking to do something different. I am one of those that love aviation having grown up around it and will probably be one of the guys reading aviation magazines in the crew lounge. And I'll most likely be one of the older guys in class at 52 and am looking forward to the experience.
I already have a CTP class date in early Sep followed by CRJ school immediately after. Not looking forward to the multiple weeks gone from home, but I know it is a one time deal to get the signoff. The great thing is that my wife is 100% in support of this decision and I will live at my base in Chicago. Hopefully that can last until we decide to relocate. We live in a great community that is actually not all that far from ORD - maybe 20 mins, so I am hoping this will offset some of the less desireable aspects of being a Jr. FO. My goal is to put in my time as FO, learn as much as I can (having fun while I am learning), and upgrade to CA in 2 years or so (projected time for an ORD CRJ CA). Fly as CA on the CRJ for a couple of years and review options.
I know that regional life is constantly in flux, so my "plan" will most likely change multiple times. However, the goal of getting a type rating or two and a 000's of hours turbine time should pan out. I think I would like a flow to the majors, but could it be possible that I actually like being at my regional? Maybe... I am certainly not ruling that out. Also, I have a friend who flies for UPS, so that is in the back of my mind also for some years down the road, although I am fully aware that is a tough seat to get. Understanding the current pilot shortage is only going to get worse, should create a better environment (i.e. flow to where you want to go) for pilots, no?
Regarding the 9-5 corporate world, DO NOT fool yourself about the security there. First of all, I don't know any of my former colleagues who worked 9-5 or even 8-5. Plus, no job is secure any longer and management will cut heads at the drop of a hat. No reason needed, just "going in a different direction." It could be to bolster their position with senior management or to cut costs (see previous) or any other reason that may or may not be performance related. And they will do this without warning or a "work out" program no matter how good a performer the person is or his/her tenure with the company. And if you are lucky to keep your job, then long work days are the norm, not the exception. It is the way of the world today. Not many jobs are safe and cushy any longer.
If you think an airline pilot's schedule is long and hard, so are many coporate positions, one of those being in a national business development or sales management role. I used to do it and I see my neighbor gone many weekends and typically most of the week. Early Mon departures and late Fri arrivals - almost every week. Sucks, but you do what you have to do. I actually didn't mind the travel as I got to see lots of different customers and parts of the country, but it did get tiresome sometimes.
That said, it is time for a change and I am looking forward to it. I do not know exactly where it will lead, but I am ready for all possibilities. Saying this tongue firmly in cheek, but I look at it like this - it won't be much different than my previous business travel - gone for 3 (or many 4) nights, hotels, airport and restaurant meals, airline travel - except the TSA lines are shorter and I get the best seat in the house. Well, that is how I am looking at it to start. Carry on....
If you don't mind, I will give you my take and welcome any comments. I too am working on this career change. I have spent 27 years in the private sector within a couple of different industries and am looking to do something different. I am one of those that love aviation having grown up around it and will probably be one of the guys reading aviation magazines in the crew lounge. And I'll most likely be one of the older guys in class at 52 and am looking forward to the experience.
I already have a CTP class date in early Sep followed by CRJ school immediately after. Not looking forward to the multiple weeks gone from home, but I know it is a one time deal to get the signoff. The great thing is that my wife is 100% in support of this decision and I will live at my base in Chicago. Hopefully that can last until we decide to relocate. We live in a great community that is actually not all that far from ORD - maybe 20 mins, so I am hoping this will offset some of the less desireable aspects of being a Jr. FO. My goal is to put in my time as FO, learn as much as I can (having fun while I am learning), and upgrade to CA in 2 years or so (projected time for an ORD CRJ CA). Fly as CA on the CRJ for a couple of years and review options.
I know that regional life is constantly in flux, so my "plan" will most likely change multiple times. However, the goal of getting a type rating or two and a 000's of hours turbine time should pan out. I think I would like a flow to the majors, but could it be possible that I actually like being at my regional? Maybe... I am certainly not ruling that out. Also, I have a friend who flies for UPS, so that is in the back of my mind also for some years down the road, although I am fully aware that is a tough seat to get. Understanding the current pilot shortage is only going to get worse, should create a better environment (i.e. flow to where you want to go) for pilots, no?
Regarding the 9-5 corporate world, DO NOT fool yourself about the security there. First of all, I don't know any of my former colleagues who worked 9-5 or even 8-5. Plus, no job is secure any longer and management will cut heads at the drop of a hat. No reason needed, just "going in a different direction." It could be to bolster their position with senior management or to cut costs (see previous) or any other reason that may or may not be performance related. And they will do this without warning or a "work out" program no matter how good a performer the person is or his/her tenure with the company. And if you are lucky to keep your job, then long work days are the norm, not the exception. It is the way of the world today. Not many jobs are safe and cushy any longer.
If you think an airline pilot's schedule is long and hard, so are many coporate positions, one of those being in a national business development or sales management role. I used to do it and I see my neighbor gone many weekends and typically most of the week. Early Mon departures and late Fri arrivals - almost every week. Sucks, but you do what you have to do. I actually didn't mind the travel as I got to see lots of different customers and parts of the country, but it did get tiresome sometimes.
That said, it is time for a change and I am looking forward to it. I do not know exactly where it will lead, but I am ready for all possibilities. Saying this tongue firmly in cheek, but I look at it like this - it won't be much different than my previous business travel - gone for 3 (or many 4) nights, hotels, airport and restaurant meals, airline travel - except the TSA lines are shorter and I get the best seat in the house. Well, that is how I am looking at it to start. Carry on....
08-31-2016, 12:00 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 271
If you get one thing from all the posts above it should that there is no standard path to a flying career. There are many things that will affect your path. Some you can control others you can not.
I speak for years of experience.
I have spent 20 years in this biz and currently at my 6th airline.
Here are a few things I have learned.
1- Things always change!!! example, in 2001 I got hired at my dream job at a major. 6 months later 911 happened and I was on the street with no job and no flying jobs available. You think change will not happen to you, well talk to any random pilot that has been in this industry for 20 years, you will hear about all the things that happen that the young guys have never experienced.
furloughs, bankruptcy, mergers, bases closures,pensions disappearing, fleet changes, pay cuts,work rule changes, etc.
The industry is in an up cycle right now, just like the late 90s. But the industry always follows the economy and they economy always goes up and down. This is one of the things you have no control over but you should keep it in mind.
2- Live in or near your domicile!!!
You QOL will definitely be 100% better if you do not commute. How much better will depend on if you are on reserve, schedules your airline has, etc. But even under the best conditions it takes time away from home. Plus it will add cost, (crash pad more money for food, etc). If you live in domicile, even reserve becomes much better. In fact at some places reserve goes so senior a junior pilot can not bid it because all the senior guys take it. Why, because a reserve pilot rarely flys on all their ON days. So you can sit at home instead of at a crash pad. You will get more days off at home. Of course this assumes you are not trying to build hours. There are exceptions to this. if your airline does not have a domicile you want to live in or maybe your wife has a good job in a different city, maybe it is cheap to live where you are. There are lots of factors, but just know if you commute, even with a great schedule you will be away from home more.
3- The airline that is the one everyone wants to work for will not be the one next year. Don't pick an airline by who is the "hot one" now. (see rule #1)
Look at all the factors that are important to you and pick the one that meets most of them. For me, I live on the west coast and rule #2 was high on my list. A few airlines floated to to top. Then I narrowed it down to Compass. There were several things they offered that made it a great fit for me. LAX is a junior base for them, so I got awarded it before I completed train. (rule #2 covered)
They currently have very short reserve time in LAX, (2-3 months) If you live in the east, there many be better option for you than commuting to LA. But then again, we have guys that commute from HI and they have schedules with 14 days off with only 1 yr seniority.
Also, Compass gives 4 commuter hotel room per month. So many guys that commute don't have to have a crash pad. That may make a difference for a person, but then again you are still commuting. But a very nice benefit to have.
3- have a long term goal, but have a backup plan.
For me, my goal like everyone else is to get back to a major. But if the economy tanks in the next year, hiring will probably come to a standstill. Could you be happy at the regional you pick for the next several years? That is a question you have to keep in mind. Compass currently has a 1 yr upgrade time. So for me that out weighed higher pay at some other airlines.
bottom line, everyone's situation is different and everyone has things that are more important to them than the next guy. Look at the things that are important to you and then see how they match up to some of the airlines you are interested in and what they can offer.
rule #4
The 3 rules above will never change in this industry!!!
I speak for years of experience.
I have spent 20 years in this biz and currently at my 6th airline.
Here are a few things I have learned.
1- Things always change!!! example, in 2001 I got hired at my dream job at a major. 6 months later 911 happened and I was on the street with no job and no flying jobs available. You think change will not happen to you, well talk to any random pilot that has been in this industry for 20 years, you will hear about all the things that happen that the young guys have never experienced.
furloughs, bankruptcy, mergers, bases closures,pensions disappearing, fleet changes, pay cuts,work rule changes, etc.
The industry is in an up cycle right now, just like the late 90s. But the industry always follows the economy and they economy always goes up and down. This is one of the things you have no control over but you should keep it in mind.
2- Live in or near your domicile!!!
You QOL will definitely be 100% better if you do not commute. How much better will depend on if you are on reserve, schedules your airline has, etc. But even under the best conditions it takes time away from home. Plus it will add cost, (crash pad more money for food, etc). If you live in domicile, even reserve becomes much better. In fact at some places reserve goes so senior a junior pilot can not bid it because all the senior guys take it. Why, because a reserve pilot rarely flys on all their ON days. So you can sit at home instead of at a crash pad. You will get more days off at home. Of course this assumes you are not trying to build hours. There are exceptions to this. if your airline does not have a domicile you want to live in or maybe your wife has a good job in a different city, maybe it is cheap to live where you are. There are lots of factors, but just know if you commute, even with a great schedule you will be away from home more.
3- The airline that is the one everyone wants to work for will not be the one next year. Don't pick an airline by who is the "hot one" now. (see rule #1)
Look at all the factors that are important to you and pick the one that meets most of them. For me, I live on the west coast and rule #2 was high on my list. A few airlines floated to to top. Then I narrowed it down to Compass. There were several things they offered that made it a great fit for me. LAX is a junior base for them, so I got awarded it before I completed train. (rule #2 covered)
They currently have very short reserve time in LAX, (2-3 months) If you live in the east, there many be better option for you than commuting to LA. But then again, we have guys that commute from HI and they have schedules with 14 days off with only 1 yr seniority.
Also, Compass gives 4 commuter hotel room per month. So many guys that commute don't have to have a crash pad. That may make a difference for a person, but then again you are still commuting. But a very nice benefit to have.
3- have a long term goal, but have a backup plan.
For me, my goal like everyone else is to get back to a major. But if the economy tanks in the next year, hiring will probably come to a standstill. Could you be happy at the regional you pick for the next several years? That is a question you have to keep in mind. Compass currently has a 1 yr upgrade time. So for me that out weighed higher pay at some other airlines.
bottom line, everyone's situation is different and everyone has things that are more important to them than the next guy. Look at the things that are important to you and then see how they match up to some of the airlines you are interested in and what they can offer.
rule #4
The 3 rules above will never change in this industry!!!
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