ATP legislation this week?
02-03-2016, 12:45 PM
#21
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Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,480
Originally Posted by Ifly4u2c
1500 hour rule is worthless... when it comes to define more experience in the 121 world. Perhaps lets say, that you have 1500 hours which 100 are multi in a PA44 and 1400 are C172. what kind of experience can you transfer to a RJ??? radio comms, really basic aerodynamics and systems, airspace and IFR flying, maybe you get some maybe or you get basically none, and this IFR is on airplanes with cruise speeds slower than Vref on a RJ... like someone said 600 hours he was more than ready, I believe it, but i also believe there are pilots out there that even with 1500 hours are not ready yet, but they are "pushed" thru by their company, bc of the lack of pilots to fill in cockpits.
I believe, that the only way to make the sky safer is not keep a 1500 hour rule, but allow pilots to be tested by independent FAA examiners at 500, 750, 1000, 1250 hours of experience. this pratical test could be done in a level D sim, at the pilot request at these times, they would get a chance to prove they were ready. if they would fail, they would have to wait till they reach the next level of hours. The test shall NOT be something standard, bc eventually would be gauged and therefore would become worthless to evaluate the actual skills of the pilot. regarding the system knowledge and all the other stuff usually evaluated on the oral, it should be studied by the pilot on its own.
When i talk to my fellow pilot friends I usually use this example. Just because you are a "head chef" at Mcdonalds for 15 years, will that make you a good chef, or someone good enough to become a chef or a chef helper, at a fancy expensive restaurant???
these are my 2 cents to this 1500 rule.
safe skies fellow pilots
I believe, that the only way to make the sky safer is not keep a 1500 hour rule, but allow pilots to be tested by independent FAA examiners at 500, 750, 1000, 1250 hours of experience. this pratical test could be done in a level D sim, at the pilot request at these times, they would get a chance to prove they were ready. if they would fail, they would have to wait till they reach the next level of hours. The test shall NOT be something standard, bc eventually would be gauged and therefore would become worthless to evaluate the actual skills of the pilot. regarding the system knowledge and all the other stuff usually evaluated on the oral, it should be studied by the pilot on its own.
When i talk to my fellow pilot friends I usually use this example. Just because you are a "head chef" at Mcdonalds for 15 years, will that make you a good chef, or someone good enough to become a chef or a chef helper, at a fancy expensive restaurant???
these are my 2 cents to this 1500 rule.
safe skies fellow pilots
02-03-2016, 12:55 PM
#22
Always on vacation
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Position: CFII/MEI
Posts: 68
i understand it may sound stupid idea bc of the lack of trustworthy FAA examiners. that is where the safety is start to falling apart IMHO.
yes you learn something in those 1500 hours, but what can u transfer for the RJ or the 121 world. Most likely the first time u study turbines is on ground school at ur regional, bleeds, hydraulic systems, rvsm, etc, things that a piston airplane cant show you.
I believe people with 135 and 91k experience, and/or turbine experience should have a break, as well as considering to where do they got they tickets at, on the 1500 hour rule.
yes you learn something in those 1500 hours, but what can u transfer for the RJ or the 121 world. Most likely the first time u study turbines is on ground school at ur regional, bleeds, hydraulic systems, rvsm, etc, things that a piston airplane cant show you.
I believe people with 135 and 91k experience, and/or turbine experience should have a break, as well as considering to where do they got they tickets at, on the 1500 hour rule.
02-03-2016, 12:57 PM
#24
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Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,022
Originally Posted by Ifly4u2c
i understand it may sound stupid idea bc of the lack of trustworthy FAA examiners. that is where the safety is start to falling apart IMHO.
yes you learn something in those 1500 hours, but what can u transfer for the RJ or the 121 world. Most likely the first time u study turbines is on ground school at ur regional, bleeds, hydraulic systems, rvsm, etc, things that a piston airplane cant show you.
I believe people with 135 and 91k experience, and/or turbine experience should have a break, as well as considering to where do they got they tickets at, on the 1500 hour rule.
yes you learn something in those 1500 hours, but what can u transfer for the RJ or the 121 world. Most likely the first time u study turbines is on ground school at ur regional, bleeds, hydraulic systems, rvsm, etc, things that a piston airplane cant show you.
I believe people with 135 and 91k experience, and/or turbine experience should have a break, as well as considering to where do they got they tickets at, on the 1500 hour rule.
We had entire classes on that stuff in college. Maybe the part 61 folks wouldn't touch that stuff til part 121 ground school though.
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02-03-2016, 12:58 PM
#25
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Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 610
I also think the hours bump is necessary because Its too easy to clock 500 hours GPS direct with an iPad moving map bumping along with the iPod going under the headset.
Flying around with paper charts, NDB's, and VOR's produced a seasoned pilot faster. Which was standard when the previous flight time regs were established.
Flying around with paper charts, NDB's, and VOR's produced a seasoned pilot faster. Which was standard when the previous flight time regs were established.
02-03-2016, 01:02 PM
#26
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Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,666
Originally Posted by twebb
Explained in the 1st example. Attaching link.....good thread on this from the past. Go to the interpretation link, its the first example why that pilot wouldnt be qualified.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/av...ml#post1735116
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/av...ml#post1735116
02-03-2016, 01:12 PM
#27
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Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 634
Originally Posted by Ifly4u2c
i understand it may sound stupid idea bc of the lack of trustworthy FAA examiners. that is where the safety is start to falling apart IMHO.
yes you learn something in those 1500 hours, but what can u transfer for the RJ or the 121 world. Most likely the first time u study turbines is on ground school at ur regional, bleeds, hydraulic systems, rvsm, etc, things that a piston airplane cant show you.
I believe people with 135 and 91k experience, and/or turbine experience should have a break, as well as considering to where do they got they tickets at, on the 1500 hour rule.
yes you learn something in those 1500 hours, but what can u transfer for the RJ or the 121 world. Most likely the first time u study turbines is on ground school at ur regional, bleeds, hydraulic systems, rvsm, etc, things that a piston airplane cant show you.
I believe people with 135 and 91k experience, and/or turbine experience should have a break, as well as considering to where do they got they tickets at, on the 1500 hour rule.
I personally felt the time I spent flight instructing cemented a foundation from which I could be successful in other endeavors in many different ways. Sure, i hadn't flown a jet before, but every jet pilot hasn't flown a jet before at some time in their career.
And btw, i have a friend who worked in a fast food chicken restaurant who later became a chef.... so ya, the skills your learn in life are definitely transferrable and it's up to you to elevate them.
02-03-2016, 01:33 PM
#28
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: CE-650
Posts: 397
Originally Posted by Xdashdriver
Fortunately the FAA has already approved an exemption for this one, but each individual has to petition the FAA to have the exemption apply to them.
02-03-2016, 01:39 PM
#29
Always on vacation
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Position: CFII/MEI
Posts: 68
you got a point, i agree it changes who you are being a CFI, you know for most guys out there, that their first job, get some maturity and some sense of responsability, that is why they raised the age to 23 y/o if i am not wrong, but lets go to the point, why isnt 500 or 750 or even 1000 the right number, why not give a pilot a chance at those times, like i said some are ready some are not, give them a fair shot at it?!?. I got my first jet job at 1050 hours total, I though i was ready, and somewhat i was, passed my type rating with flying colors, but get to fly the airplane in real life conditions ( winter, NY airspace,etc) i realized it wasnt as easy as it appeared in the SIM. everything was faster than i was used too. It took me a couple of flights to get comfortable with it, but to be honest, there was little to nothing that i could use from CFIing towards my new job. on a light twin you dont have to worry about landing distances or landing weight limits, on a constants bases, for example, or speed limits, or setting up STAR's for vertical navigation, de icing, worry about busting the ruddy 5 SID out of TEB, bc the light twin does not accelerate or climbs as fast as a phenom 300, there are alot of things that the 1500 hour of flight time will not give you in term of experience.
1500 hour brought alot of good things, in the short term, and lets see in 15, 20 years down the road if it wont bit us in the a**.
before the 1500 hour remember when there were 1000 pilots for a 50 seat vacancy, they would pick only the best, now they have 1000 seats and only 50 pilots, do you think regionals will be picky about it??? what is holding this clean sheet about accidents are "the best pilots" picked when there was alot to pick from. Once most of this retire or leave, lets hope those "pushed thru school"F/O's learn good stuff or at least something with them.
Side note: the colgar air crash was not a matter of lack of experience, but a lack of rest, both pilots had over 3000 hours
1500 hour brought alot of good things, in the short term, and lets see in 15, 20 years down the road if it wont bit us in the a**.
before the 1500 hour remember when there were 1000 pilots for a 50 seat vacancy, they would pick only the best, now they have 1000 seats and only 50 pilots, do you think regionals will be picky about it??? what is holding this clean sheet about accidents are "the best pilots" picked when there was alot to pick from. Once most of this retire or leave, lets hope those "pushed thru school"F/O's learn good stuff or at least something with them.
Side note: the colgar air crash was not a matter of lack of experience, but a lack of rest, both pilots had over 3000 hours
02-03-2016, 01:50 PM
#30
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Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: Piloto
Posts: 324
Originally Posted by snackysmores
The 1500 hour rule is about creating supply control for pilots. If we lose it, we're taking a massive step backwards. Everything we've gained in pay/QOL/work rules will disappear if we lose it.
You are talking about social benefits, the 1500 rule wasn't designed to help ys negotiate better pays. These people are going to fight it because they are foolishly convinced that its a safer rule. Doing an extra 1,000 hours of 172 in the pattern is not going to generate valuable experience.
They actually see more washouts since the rule, some need much longer time in IOE then prior to the rule. So, its not because it helped us negotiate better condition that its good for the safety of aviation.
The rule could be amended wit more sim training or more line training, right now, it doesnt do anything to prepare and train polots to be safer and better on 121 operations.
Skiles finally trying to get some media spotlight after beng shadowed by Sully? Did he return to the line after the "Miracle on the Hudson"?
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