Hayduke

Depends on whether they use Jepp or government charts. Jeppesen states NA mins at night period, but in the notes only says the procedure is NA at night if the VGSI is out. Government charts don't differentiate between day and night mins, but also state it's NA at night without the VGSI.

Which does UPS use?

Signal Delta

UPS uses Jepps.

MrBojangles

maybe this was covered previously, but does anyone know if 6/24 was closed? They've been doing work on it recently

kronan

6/24 was closed for afld maintenance.

Field was VFR, so, technically, LOC mins at night not really a player. That being said, was very surprised to see the Night NA box on Jepps.

My assumption is that the Capt elected to practice a vertical NAV descent using the LOC for practice in visual conditions. (Visual approach backed up by the LOC with a VNAV descent would be a 3.28 descent angle, so slightly above the PAPI our "expert" was so worried about)

Still, surprised the Capt didn't opt for the RNAV (GPS)

JoeyMeatballs

This is from the NTSB briefing yesterday.

In their third press briefing on Aug 16th 2013 the NTSB said, the "recorders did their job", there are good data, the cockpit voice recorder as well as the flight data recorder hold the entire flight. The captain (ATPL, 8,600 hours total, 3,200 hours on type) was pilot flying, the first officer (ATPL, 6,500 hours total, 400 hours on type) was pilot monitoring, the crew briefed the LOC approach runway 18, 2 minutes prior to the end of recording the aircraft received landing clearance on runway 18, 16 seconds before end of recordings there are two audible alerts by the GPWS "Sink Rate! Sink Rate!", 13 seconds prior to end of recording one crew member said "runway in sight", 9 seconds prior to end of recording sounds consistent with impact occurred. The flight data recorder contains more than 400 parameters requiring verification that these parameters are valid, this process takes time. It holds 70 hours of data including the entire accident flight. There were two controllers on duty at Birmingham tower, one controller was taking a break as permitted. The remaining controller observed the crash, he saw sparks and a large bright orange flash that he interpreted as breaking of a power line, he saw the landing lights, then no longer saw the landing lights and instead saw a large orange glow, he activated the crash button. There were no alerts regarding minimum safe altitude issued by his radar system. The crew started their "duty day" in Rockford,IL at 9:30pm on Aug 13th and flew to Peoria,IL as flight 5X-617 on A306 N161UP, then to Louisville,KY again as flight 5X-617 on N161UP before departing for the accident flight 5X-1354 on N155UP.

Commando

On a side note, how does a 23 year UPS guy only have 8,600 hrs total time?

That to me is very low time. I have over 14000 and have been here way less time. He lived out of domiclie and was on the A300. Not the 747 or MD Intl. So not working for a month is rare.

So no Sim Flight Training gig, no sitting Reserve, etc. lived out of SDF.

JoeyMeatballs

^ it's already been discussed

Commando

I also think Swed blender is full of it. One doesn't drop a two 12 day trips (24) for training and not get a day restored. Usually multiple or all days restored. Vacation also. Scheduling is very good at this. And having Zero days restored is BS.

The only way to not fly as much is to live in the Awesome city of Louisville.

kronan

Then again,
always easier to "see" something in the daylight....and hindsight always 20/20

UAL T38 Phlyer

Those who have flown to this runway know that KBHM is surrounded on three sides by large hills. The only approach that doesn't have a hill on short-final is 24. (But it has a BIG hill at the departure end).

The hill short of 18 is relatively unpopulated and has very few lights on it, or surrounding it.

If you fly what looks like a normal 3-degree glidepath to the runway, you will be very low over the hill at half a mile final.

A (still normal-looking) 2.5 degree would have you skimming the ground.

To fly to this runway with reasonable ground clearance, you must fly what appears to be an abnormally-steep final; hence the 3.28 degree Glideslope on the approach plates.

It was night/pre-dawn, and we had a front go through the night before. Not sure if there was any scud/fog in BHM.

God's peace to them. This could have happened to any of us.