Sa227capt

You shouldn't slip any swept wing jet in a cross wind, period. Fly the crab all the way to the flare and alter prior to touch down. Isn't that flight school 101????

Whole heartedly agree that all a go around does is bruise one's ego. Rather have that then a bent airframe. Another thought however would be, "Why would an ego be bruised for making a good decision?" Taking an aircraft that close to the ground shows lack of leadership skills and flying ability. Yes, there may be an occasion where it must be done. However, only to go around, not to try and land the portly managed situation in the first place. Just my two cents for what it's worth.

JoeyMeatballs

+1................

cardiomd

That is even true for the piston singles - from the beginning of training it has always been hammered in to stay coordinated until the flare. As others have said putting the plane in a slip (crosswind correction) with changing / gusty winds that may vanish near surface effect is a bad idea, and slip technique is not advised for low-slung wings in a large transport jet, just use crab and remove prior to touchdown.

Bruised ego and a tiny bit of JetA. One acquaintance told me that his airline actuaries put a cost of a go-around approximately $15,000 for a 737 (counting fuel, pay, pax inconvenience.) Not trivial, but not as large as you would think either.

Adlerdriver

A slip is rudder and opposite aileron, right? If you use rudder to align with the runway and drop the upwind wing with opposite aileron to kill the drift in the flare, isn't that the same as a slip (just much later in the approach).

"Shouldn't" is probably a bit strong. While I agree putting in cross-wind controls (or slipping) well prior to the flare is not the best technique, IMO, it's not like it's unsafe. I've seen it done many times and I think you'll find a segment (minority, I think) of the heavy jet community that prefers to land in a cross-wind that way.

Their rationale will probably be something like that it's easier to get things set up, get the flight controls positioned, align the fuselage and kill any drift, re-adjust power to compensate for the extra drag with a few hundred feet of altitude and some time to go. They don't want to be making all those changes in the last 50 feet in the landing environment while flaring an almost half-million pound aircraft, etc. Not saying I agree at all, that's just been the justification I've heard (from some at FedEx for example).

Airhoss

Not always the case. Boeing recommends transitioning to a combination slip/ crab at 200 agl on the 777. They recommend that so as to allow yourself to get properly lined up on centerline. If your butt is on centerline in a crab in a good x wind your main trucks are out over the runway edge lights. If you are not aware of that you'll be lined up runway edge when you take your crab out in the flare.

I simply line up on the upwind side of the runway. The heavier the x wind the further up wind I'll line up. Once you get the feel for it you can judge it pretty close and be lined up on centerline when you de crab.

JoeyMeatballs

Absolutely no way it could cost that much? I can't say for sure but it just sounds way too high

Adlerdriver

I don't think anyone WOULD put their butt on centerline while still in a crab. That would make no sense.

They'd do just what you said and, depending on aircraft and runway size, put their butt in the appropriate spot on the upwind side so the jet will be on centerline when they align it. I've been over the grass at some smaller runways as I start to put the rudder in.

Airhoss

The average DIVERT not a go around costs about $8k. No way a go around is $15k.

cardiomd

Haha that's exactly what I said. Even 1000 lbs of fuel for the climb out, a brief hold, and descent seems high. He said they take into account missed connections, complaints, average cost for need for rerouting, etc.

It likely also depends on accounting method. I was once in a non-wx diversion in early 2000s, and Northwest gave everybody $100 voucher, arranged several buses for transportation. That would be significantly more than $8,000 right there. Obviously giving $100 voucher is not $100 "cost", but this guy is pretty high up MBA working for a major carrier (not NWA/Delta), so I'd guess by the internal bookkeeping / incentive cost he is correct. I'll ask him again next we meet.

Adlerdriver

Actually......... 1000 lbs of fuel for climb out, hold and another approach is very, very low on most larger jets. An MD-11 burns that in about 4 minutes at cruise altitude. Consumption would be significantly higher at low altitude following a go-around. I can't remember 737 numbers but if I had to do a go around and fly another approach, that would probably cost me around 5000 lbs. not even considering the holding.