De-iced procedure failure
02-07-2016, 05:18 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: JAFO- First Observer
Posts: 997
Purely hypothetical- "If" someone (such as the OP) had the requisite knowledge, training and experience on the certificate holder's approved de-ice/anti-ice procedures, and believes they were not followed correctly, he/she should consider informing the PIC by every means available. Without having all the facts, this is very difficult to assess. However, This type of situation "could" be a significant safety issue. If the company has an organization-wide safety reporting system (SMS)- I would also encourage anyone to submit a report.
02-07-2016, 08:01 PM
#22
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
Originally Posted by Waldorf
I don't know any major carrier that uses type I. In fact type I is hardly used. Most carriers use type IV for both deice and anti ice. The fluid usually has a color to it. The flight crew looks at a deice table to decide how long the fluid is effective for the current weather conditions.
02-07-2016, 08:03 PM
#23
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,211
Originally Posted by Waldorf
I don't know any major carrier that uses type I. In fact type I is hardly used. Most carriers use type IV for both deice and anti ice. The fluid usually has a color to it. The flight crew looks at a deice table to decide how long the fluid is effective for the current weather conditions.
Huh??? This is out to lunch...we use type I all the time, applied by DAL and UAL stations. It is applied hot as a de-ice fluid.
Type IV is applied cold, and is a protective anti-ice fluid. It is viscous and sticks to the plane until it blows off on T/O...that's why it's applied cold. And when applied cold it cannot do much to remove existing ice.
There are a lot of possible variations on de-ice/anti-ice, but the most common is hot type 1 to de-ice, and then cold type 4 if needed for anti-ice.
02-07-2016, 08:24 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by Waldorf
I don't know any major carrier that uses type I. In fact type I is hardly used. Most carriers use type IV for both deice and anti ice. The fluid usually has a color to it. The flight crew looks at a deice table to decide how long the fluid is effective for the current weather conditions.
02-08-2016, 02:28 AM
#25
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,504
Heated Type II/IV is allowed for deicing in lieu of Type I...the FBO in GFK had their deice truck break down in the middle of a snowstorm a few years back and the FBO borrowed Delta's deice truck...which was a hot then cold Type II application.
I didn't know Type II was even still used, and specifically asked if they meant Type IV...they were adamant it was Type II.
I didn't know Type II was even still used, and specifically asked if they meant Type IV...they were adamant it was Type II.
02-08-2016, 06:21 AM
#26
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
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Originally Posted by BoilerUP
Heated Type II/IV is allowed for deicing in lieu of Type I...the FBO in GFK had their deice truck break down in the middle of a snowstorm a few years back and the FBO borrowed Delta's deice truck...which was a hot then cold Type II application.
I didn't know Type II was even still used, and specifically asked if they meant Type IV...they were adamant it was Type II.
I didn't know Type II was even still used, and specifically asked if they meant Type IV...they were adamant it was Type II.
02-08-2016, 10:59 AM
#27
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Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by Fletcheroes
Let's rephrase the question. What would you guys do if you were dead heading or non rev on this aircraft.
You were at the gate and observed the aircraft for several hours prior to departure.
You observed the deice operation from your seat at the wing.
You were at the gate and observed the aircraft for several hours prior to departure.
You observed the deice operation from your seat at the wing.
Light freezing rain has holdover times. Anything more than light, you're in no man territory and will be returning to the gate and cancelling unless the freezing rain lets up.
02-08-2016, 11:01 AM
#28
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Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by Waldorf
I don't know any major carrier that uses type I. In fact type I is hardly used. Most carriers use type IV for both deice and anti ice. The fluid usually has a color to it. The flight crew looks at a deice table to decide how long the fluid is effective for the current weather conditions.
02-08-2016, 02:31 PM
#29
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Lantis 838 k-loader/Freightliner FL70
Posts: 133
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Huh? Nearly everyone in the US uses type 1 and type IV. Type 1 if just to remove contaminant and there's no precip/visible moisture present; and a full type 1 + type 4 for active precip/moisture.
Delta-trained deicing operator at major Delta hub speaking here.
I've been trying to figure out what exactly Type II is and what it was used for. I think it's considered obsolete and I'm not sure why anyone uses it, anywhere.
02-08-2016, 05:04 PM
#30
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Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Captian, G450, G550 (Ret.)
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Originally Posted by Fletcheroes
Keep in mind my "observation" next time your being de-iced by a contractor that pays the deice crew 8.00/hr and might have a high school diploma.
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