Clearing the runway? How far do you go?
#11
This should be a pretty simple thing to clear up. I actually just read an ASAP from a crew in a similar situation who were told to expedite their exit and in a panic turned onto a runway no in use to prevent a go around from traffic behind them. Unfortunately, nothing in the ERC suggestion reminded them that they shouldn't let ATC dictate their rollout and runway exit. The ASAP indicated that they hurried off the runway because they thought they would be at fault for the go around of an aircraft behind them.
For instance here at KOKC we land on 17R to the south most often.
Back taxiing on RWY 13 is the quickest way to the hangar.
Often RWY 13 is IN USE if RWY 17R is being used and I'd never turn on RWY 13 unless specifically cleared. At the same time - I didn't think you should clear onto RWY 13 even if it wasn't being used without the same specific clearance.
To the point of the OP - I was asking a work colleague about stopping at KDWH yesterday and he told me about clearing the runway and ending up with his nose in the taxiway intersection. He didn't have the problems though with ground control in the scenario.
Update: Never mind the response to the exiting onto another runway. That was covered in the AIM 4-3-29 as well:
a. Exit the runway without delay at the first
available taxiway or on a taxiway as instructed by
ATC. Pilots must not exit the landing runway onto
another runway unless authorized by ATC. At
airports with an operating control tower, pilots should
not stop or reverse course on the runway without first
obtaining ATC approval.
available taxiway or on a taxiway as instructed by
ATC. Pilots must not exit the landing runway onto
another runway unless authorized by ATC. At
airports with an operating control tower, pilots should
not stop or reverse course on the runway without first
obtaining ATC approval.
NOTE−
1. An aircraft is expected to taxi clear of the runway unless
otherwise directed by ATC. Pilots must not exit the landing
runway on to an intersecting runway unless authorized by
ATC.
1. An aircraft is expected to taxi clear of the runway unless
otherwise directed by ATC. Pilots must not exit the landing
runway on to an intersecting runway unless authorized by
ATC.
Last edited by USMCFLYR; 08-04-2016 at 12:19 PM.
#12
That is correct and that was an error on the crew, but I don't think they would have made that error if they were not pressured by ATC to exit quickly.
#13
At ORD, you clear and keep moving. You stop and you'll be "told about it"!
Just keep moving until you can get a word in or ground calls you.
As to the OP, just clear the runway and call ground.
Ground and tower controllers should be coordinating to not have an interference of taxiing and clearing traffic.
Just keep moving until you can get a word in or ground calls you.
As to the OP, just clear the runway and call ground.
Ground and tower controllers should be coordinating to not have an interference of taxiing and clearing traffic.
#14
Until about 15 years ago, airliners were expected to just land without a clearance at big airports, vice going around, if tower was too busy to get a word in. We don't do that anymore either.
#15
I can have my Cessna down and off the runway in well under 1000 feet, and it would be silly / idiotic to exit at A1 or Y1 or whatever right in front of the 737 who is heading to A / Y to takeoff behind me. I'm assuming that is what happened and the controller chewed him out (somewhat incorrectly) for this.
CLEARLY landing traffic has priority to exiting the runway, and that is why we should also taxi slowly and be ready. So the guy technically did nothing wrong.
If I see a line of other aircraft taxiing to takeoff I typically "land long" (for me, anyway) rapidly exit behind them, then call ground.
A little SA goes a long way.
It is in the AIM:
4−3−20. Exiting the Runway After Landing
b. Taxi clear of the runway unless otherwise
directed by ATC. An aircraft is considered clear of the
runway when all parts of the aircraft are past the
runway edge and there are no restrictions to its
continued movement beyond the runway holding
position markings. In the absence of ATC instructions,
the pilot is expected to taxi clear of the landing
runway by taxiing beyond the runway holding
position markings associated with the landing
runway, even if that requires the aircraft to protrude
into or cross another taxiway or ramp area. Once all
parts of the aircraft have crossed the runway holding
position markings, the pilot must hold unless further
instructions have been issued by ATC.
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publi.../media/aim.pdf
4−3−20. Exiting the Runway After Landing
b. Taxi clear of the runway unless otherwise
directed by ATC. An aircraft is considered clear of the
runway when all parts of the aircraft are past the
runway edge and there are no restrictions to its
continued movement beyond the runway holding
position markings. In the absence of ATC instructions,
the pilot is expected to taxi clear of the landing
runway by taxiing beyond the runway holding
position markings associated with the landing
runway, even if that requires the aircraft to protrude
into or cross another taxiway or ramp area. Once all
parts of the aircraft have crossed the runway holding
position markings, the pilot must hold unless further
instructions have been issued by ATC.
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publi.../media/aim.pdf
I'd add at a few airports there are intersecting runways that immediately lead to taxiways, so if you exit the runway you will have to go 30 feet on another runway then reach the next taxiway. I've always wondered the "legality" of using that short distance and fortunately nobody has ever made a big deal of it, in fact sometimes tower tells you to do that. Usually they are marked "hot spots" on the airport diagram.
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: A-320 FO
Posts: 693
Ice is on the right track here, as many airports don't have more than the length of one aircraft between the cat lines, leaving you caught between a rock, and a rock. Absolutely clear the runway, and stop, unless you can rely on local knowledge at that particular airport, and keep moving toward the fbo/gate. Just make this, and hot spots/ expected taxi route part of your approach brief.
#17
I can't remember if the 'not is use' part is important or not, but you aren't suppose to use any runway unless cleared to do so by ATC correct?
For instance here at KOKC we land on 17R to the south most often.
Back taxiing on RWY 13 is the quickest way to the hangar.
Often RWY 13 is IN USE if RWY 17R is being used and I'd never turn on RWY 13 unless specifically cleared. At the same time - I didn't think you should clear onto RWY 13 even if it wasn't being used without the same specific clearance.
To the point of the OP - I was asking a work colleague about stopping at KDWH yesterday and he told me about clearing the runway and ending up with his nose in the taxiway intersection. He didn't have the problems though with ground control in the scenario.
Update: Never mind the response to the exiting onto another runway. That was covered in the AIM 4-3-29 as well:
and in the JO 7100.65W CHG 1
For instance here at KOKC we land on 17R to the south most often.
Back taxiing on RWY 13 is the quickest way to the hangar.
Often RWY 13 is IN USE if RWY 17R is being used and I'd never turn on RWY 13 unless specifically cleared. At the same time - I didn't think you should clear onto RWY 13 even if it wasn't being used without the same specific clearance.
To the point of the OP - I was asking a work colleague about stopping at KDWH yesterday and he told me about clearing the runway and ending up with his nose in the taxiway intersection. He didn't have the problems though with ground control in the scenario.
Update: Never mind the response to the exiting onto another runway. That was covered in the AIM 4-3-29 as well:
and in the JO 7100.65W CHG 1
#18
Ice is on the right track here, as many airports don't have more than the length of one aircraft between the cat lines, leaving you caught between a rock, and a rock. Absolutely clear the runway, and stop, unless you can rely on local knowledge at that particular airport, and keep moving toward the fbo/gate. Just make this, and hot spots/ expected taxi route part of your approach brief.
#19
I used to work ATC at an airport with close parallel runways. The hold short for one runway came before the clear line for the other. When landing on the "outboard" runway, pilots were reluctant to taxi far enough to clear the landing runway. Sometimes they would just stop not clear for fear of an incursion of the parallel without saying a thing. My technique (if I had time) was to inform the pilot that he would have to cross the second line to be clear of the landing runway.
This is all kind of airport ops 101 though, wasn't this stuff discussed to he11 during training? I remember several sessions on this topic, dual frequency requirements for parallel approaches etc.
One thing I think would improve safety is to have the yellow lines would always be painted well because it is a great clue that it is not an intersecting runway exit in low viz. We've had GPS overlay with taxi diagrams with GA SA toys which helps a lot, but I've heard still not universal in airlines.
#20
A good tower/ground "team" have these issues worked out before they happen, (exit at mike six start south on alpha or hold short of bravo). It's also good for the pilot to have some situational awareness as to whats moving around the airport, take a quick glance on short final for any potential conflicts or threats.
I've been chided as well for entering a taxiway without clearance after exiting the runway. Some tribal knowledge helps because some prefer you head towards the gate and others want you stopped immediately.
I've been chided as well for entering a taxiway without clearance after exiting the runway. Some tribal knowledge helps because some prefer you head towards the gate and others want you stopped immediately.
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