Clearing the runway? How far do you go?
08-03-2016, 11:56 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Clearing the runway? How far do you go?
This scenario (and supporting information to the answer) came across my email in the form of an issue of ATSAP July 2016.
I thought it might generate some good discussion here:
Scenario
“Tower instructed us to exit right, then call Ground. I slowed the aircraft further, then made the right turn (more than 90 degrees) onto taxiway. I continued forward to ensure all parts of the aircraft were clear of the hold short line, which put our nose approximately five feet short of the centerline of taxiway A. We stopped the aircraft to await instructions and transfer control to the Pilot in Command. Immediately upon switching to Ground, the controller began chiding us for our "incursion on the taxiway," telling us we cut off the [aircraft] that was southbound on [parallel] taxiway. He used the word "incursion" a couple of times on the radio with us. We had another jet just a couple of miles behind us on the approach, so I wanted to ensure our tail was clear of the runway. Tower gave us no instruction to hold short of [parallel] taxiway. Our intention was to avoid a traffic conflict, not create"
So APC - - - - what do you think?
I thought it might generate some good discussion here:
Scenario
“Tower instructed us to exit right, then call Ground. I slowed the aircraft further, then made the right turn (more than 90 degrees) onto taxiway. I continued forward to ensure all parts of the aircraft were clear of the hold short line, which put our nose approximately five feet short of the centerline of taxiway A. We stopped the aircraft to await instructions and transfer control to the Pilot in Command. Immediately upon switching to Ground, the controller began chiding us for our "incursion on the taxiway," telling us we cut off the [aircraft] that was southbound on [parallel] taxiway. He used the word "incursion" a couple of times on the radio with us. We had another jet just a couple of miles behind us on the approach, so I wanted to ensure our tail was clear of the runway. Tower gave us no instruction to hold short of [parallel] taxiway. Our intention was to avoid a traffic conflict, not create"
So APC - - - - what do you think?
08-03-2016, 12:14 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 136
It is in the AIM:
4−3−20. Exiting the Runway After Landing
b. Taxi clear of the runway unless otherwise
directed by ATC. An aircraft is considered clear of the
runway when all parts of the aircraft are past the
runway edge and there are no restrictions to its
continued movement beyond the runway holding
position markings. In the absence of ATC instructions,
the pilot is expected to taxi clear of the landing
runway by taxiing beyond the runway holding
position markings associated with the landing
runway, even if that requires the aircraft to protrude
into or cross another taxiway or ramp area. Once all
parts of the aircraft have crossed the runway holding
position markings, the pilot must hold unless further
instructions have been issued by ATC.
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publi.../media/aim.pdf
4−3−20. Exiting the Runway After Landing
b. Taxi clear of the runway unless otherwise
directed by ATC. An aircraft is considered clear of the
runway when all parts of the aircraft are past the
runway edge and there are no restrictions to its
continued movement beyond the runway holding
position markings. In the absence of ATC instructions,
the pilot is expected to taxi clear of the landing
runway by taxiing beyond the runway holding
position markings associated with the landing
runway, even if that requires the aircraft to protrude
into or cross another taxiway or ramp area. Once all
parts of the aircraft have crossed the runway holding
position markings, the pilot must hold unless further
instructions have been issued by ATC.
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publi.../media/aim.pdf
08-03-2016, 12:21 PM
#3
Squawking 2000
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: Skeptical
Posts: 737
Also one could argue FAR 91.113 "Right of way" rules apply in that the roll out and clearing the runway are part of landing:
(g) Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach.
(g) Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach.
08-03-2016, 01:17 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
wildcat nailed it (with reference no less), but it is also in the 7110 series.
7110.65 3-10-9 and AIM 4-3-20 gives very specific guidance on this:
"In the absence of ATC instructions, the pilot is expected to taxi clear of the landing runway by taxiing beyond the runway holding position markings associated with the landing runway, EVEN IF THAT REQUIRES THE AIRCRAFT TO PROTRUDE INTO OR CROSS ANOTHER TAXIWAY or ramp area. Once all parts of the aircraft have crossed the runway holding position markings, the pilot must hold unless further instructions have been issued by ATC.”
"In the absence of ATC instructions, the pilot is expected to taxi clear of the landing runway by taxiing beyond the runway holding position markings associated with the landing runway, EVEN IF THAT REQUIRES THE AIRCRAFT TO PROTRUDE INTO OR CROSS ANOTHER TAXIWAY or ramp area. Once all parts of the aircraft have crossed the runway holding position markings, the pilot must hold unless further instructions have been issued by ATC.”
08-03-2016, 07:14 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 834
I would have probably done the same thing, although it doesn't state the distance between the aircraft exiting and the aircraft on taxiway. It seems like the ground controller had a situational awareness issue, and was attempting some CYA at the pilots expense. If the GC had been aware of the exiting aircraft, I would think he might have stopped the taxiing aircraft on the taxiway or at least issued a caution. I'd call it a CYA deal on the controller. Bad ground controller! No dessert for you!
08-04-2016, 07:25 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,278
This should be a pretty simple thing to clear up. I actually just read an ASAP from a crew in a similar situation who were told to expedite their exit and in a panic turned onto a runway no in use to prevent a go around from traffic behind them. Unfortunately, nothing in the ERC suggestion reminded them that they shouldn't let ATC dictate their rollout and runway exit. The ASAP indicated that they hurried off the runway because they thought they would be at fault for the go around of an aircraft behind them.
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