Originally Posted by kronan

Today's recommended reading is page 515 of our CBA

Originally Posted by TonyC

Perhaps you could enlighten us by describing what goes on during build week. What was your schedule like? What time did you begin each day, and what time did you end? Where did you physically work? How much time was on ALPA property, and how much on FedEx property? Where did you eat? Who paid your trip removal? Who paid for your meals? Where did commuters stay? Who paid?

Were you ever able to draw a line in the sand on any issue to the point of delaying the publishing of a bid period package, or was the deadline always the deadline? Were you ever able to convince The Company to change a pairing to a less onerous schedule if it was going to cost The Company more money, or were the only solutions acceptable those which cost the same or less? How many disputed pairing disputes were decided by the final arbitrator in our favor?
Apart from the scheduling subject matter expertise, what experience did you gain on the PSIT which you believe would make you a better CBA negotiator?

If the goings on of the PSIT are so secretive that nobody has a clue what goes on there, isn't that a problem? Well, provide the solution. Tell us all about it.

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Originally Posted by Adlerdriver

Thanks for volunteering, trashhauler. I do personally appreciate that. My goal in my previous post was not to denigrate the efforts of the SIG and if I came across that way, I apologize to you and the other members, past and present.

I was being critical of those specific NC members who brought us this POS who happened to be prior SIG members and I don't apologize for that. You're right, I have no knowledge of what goes on in that room, but that's not really germane to my point. Having a close working relationship (as well as at least one personal relationship) over years and years with the very same people who you end up across the table from during contract negotiations is the issue. It's my opinion that some of the NC member's previous SIG work which I think I can safely assume requires compromise and in some situations acceptance of absolutes laid out by the company may not have been the best training ground for our NC.

On another SIG note - let's just say that I was interested in getting inside that room, the happenings within I readily admit I have no clue about. If I volunteered next week, how long would it take before I was allowed behind the green door, so to speak? Is that even possible for an average unknown person who might want to do that work? From what I understand, it takes some serious juice to go from scrubbing pairings to getting inside that room. Is such a well protected and exclusive fiefdom a healthy thing to have? Is it the best place to draw NC members from? Maybe you can offer your opinions because I can only go on what I've gleaned from conversation with other prior SIG folks.

I realize you were a bit offended, but are you really insinuating that my criticism of our NC and MEC is why we seem to consistently fail with contract language and enforcement? There are many, many reasons why that happens and I don't begin to claim that I could lay out a cogent explanation of them all. I certainly have my theories but they're best reserved for several hours in a bar with plenty of whisky. However, I'm pretty sure my criticism isn't one of them. Results speak for themselves and they are highly deserving of every bit of criticism they receive. Dysfunction and selfishness? Yup, they're a big problem, I couldn't agree more. There are a large number of our pilots that simply don't "get it" or don't care to. Self-regulating each other in the legalistic and punitive culture that's been built here is impossible. You're right, I don't see all that changing any time soon.

I can say that I've been at an airline that had their collective ALPA stuff squared away (albeit in a very different environment that we face now in many respects). As a new union member just off probation, I watched as the leadership lead, the pilots did what was required as a group (ya know, that unity thing?) and backed by that, the NC aggressively and WITHOUT COMPROMISE got us one of the best contracts the industry had seen to that point. The negotiating environment was fertile and in our favor during that period and they made the best of it. Much like our negotiating environment was in 2015 leading into our eventual contract, however, as we all know the results were significantly different.

So, again, my apologies. If we cross paths on the 777 and we can figure out who we are, I'd gladly buy you a beer or three and solve the world's problems further.

Originally Posted by TonyC

Perhaps you could enlighten us by describing what goes on during build week. What was your schedule like? What time did you begin each day, and what time did you end? Where did you physically work? How much time was on ALPA property, and how much on FedEx property? Where did you eat? Who paid your trip removal? Who paid for your meals? Where did commuters stay? Who paid?

Were you ever able to draw a line in the sand on any issue to the point of delaying the publishing of a bid period package, or was the deadline always the deadline? Were you ever able to convince The Company to change a pairing to a less onerous schedule if it was going to cost The Company more money, or were the only solutions acceptable those which cost the same or less? How many disputed pairing disputes were decided by the final arbitrator in our favor?
Apart from the scheduling subject matter expertise, what experience did you gain on the PSIT which you believe would make you a better CBA negotiator?

If the goings on of the PSIT are so secretive that nobody has a clue what goes on there, isn't that a problem? Well, provide the solution. Tell us all about it.






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Originally Posted by trashhauler

Tony, you were an MEC member. You already know the answer to all those questions. Why don't you enlightened everybody on what goes on in the PSIT?

Originally Posted by TonyC

The reason I'm letting YOU enlighten us about the job is because YOU are the one who rolled in on Adlerdriver claiming he didn't know anything he was talking about and you VOLUNTEERED -- all caps.

I'm not saying there was no work involved, or even that pilots don't benefit from the work. I won't even quibble with you over the use of volunteer vs. paid worker -- nobody should suffer financially because of union work. However, the work is not unpaid, and it does come with certain perks. It also involves working closely with The Company month in and month out, and there are limits to what you can do to fix pairings or build lines. When The Company says it can't be fixed, you have to accept that and move on. While we can refuse to agree on a section of the CBA during Section 6 negotiations, we can't refuse to publish a bid period package.

So, if you think Adlerdriver was incorrect in his observation, instead of getting your nose bent out of joint because you VOLUNTEERED, please tell us about the work of that group and how the skills transfer to the Negotiating Committee. All 4 of the Negotiating Committee members who brought us this CBA were children of the PSIT.






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Originally Posted by trashhauler

Tony first off,my nose wasn't bent out of shape. Wether you get paid or not, you have to first volunteer to get into that position. As we all know Tony, the vast majority of pilots never volunteer for anything in the union throughout their career. Everybody has the same option if they think somebody is getting a good deal to apply, volunteer for that position. Like I said, in my opinion, the compensation for what I did on the PSIT was definitely not the reason of why I did it. I would think that would vary depending on the person. I felt an obligation to do something for our union and that's where I ended up for whatever reason. I really wasn't seeking it out.

Originally Posted by trashhauler

As for PSIT members being on the negotiating committee, I don't know wether that makes you more or less qualified to do the job. I think that at least lends to you knowing more about that section. Aren't all the members of negotiating committee voted on by the MEC? If they didn't want all the members to be prior PSIT, why did they approve them? As you also know Tony, the negotiating committee doesn't negotiate whatever they want. They get their marching orders from the MEC. They have some latitude obviously, but in the end, the MEC votes on wether to approve whatever the negotiating committee brings to them.

Originally Posted by trashhauler

Also, the pilot group makes the final decision. We can beat this into the ground all day long, and the results will not change. Maybe it's time to move forward and hope we can actually unite. Not holding my breath!