No Land 3

Don’t know, also don’t know how Bezos will change things down the road as he attempts to use ACMI as a competitor to FedEx and UPS. Too many possibilities and unknowns.

maxjet

We are not in bed with Bezos nor do I ever anticipate Connie would. He would never want to dilute his share of his company. This is his baby and he has a lot of pride in it, the business model and it’s success.

DC8DRIVER

Well, for starters, that statement is wrong.

Teamsters is not just Atlas and Atlas is not a competitor.

Teamsters is also Allegiant, ABX, OMNI, Southern, & others.

And it is your management that considers the other Teamster ACMI carriers to be competitors. It is your fellow Teamster pilots who consider other Teamster ACMI carriers to be union brothers and sisters.

So apparently, you fall in line with the philosophy of your own management group.

On these very message boards, your fellow K4 pilots have raved about just how good your new contract is. A contract that, although could be better (as some K4 pilots have admitted), is leading among other ACMI carriers. It was brought to you by the Teamsters.

Allegiant also has a good contract provided by the Teamsters. And now that Teamsters has provided you with a good contract, you want to jump ship. That shows real loyalty.

I've flown for three ALPA represented carriers (two of which were ACMI carriers) and if you think for one minute that ALPA will pay attention to you during negotiations, if you think that for one minute that the FedEx pilot group will have grounds to support you during a strike, you are kidding yourself.

You're right, though, that ALPA represents 59,000 other pilots. But almost all of them make far more money than Kalitta pilots. And almost all of them are represented by far, far larger pilot groups than Kalitta. Even the regional airlines, have three to ten times the pilots that Kalitta has. And these bring in more revenue than Kalitta will provide for their bottom line.

Who do you think ALPA will pay attention to when it push comes to shove?? Who do you think they'll send resources to during negotiations? Kalitta, the ACMI carrier, with its almost 400 pilots or all the other ALPA carriers that provide a hundred times more money to their coffers?

Think about that.

8

DC8DRIVER

Connie is 80. How much longer do you think K4 will be under his influence?

maxjet

Brought to me by the Teamsters? No, it was inhibited by a conflict of interest involving Atlas. 1224 is Atlas, controlled by Atlas or however you want to put it. Interestingly, the Allegiant contract did not conflict with Atlas goals and it was supported by 1224. Kalitta and now Omni negotiations goals conflict with Atlas. 1224 (Atlas) is (has) stopping (stopped), a TA from moving forward claiming that it is lowering the bar?

How many ways do I have state the problem? 1224 (Atlas) is aware of the problem and yet makes no effort to even discuss this problem. Even in the shadow of a decertification vote? You don’t see the problem?

catching waves

Why on Earth does anyone care if K4 stays or goes? Seriously. Why? Why would a regular line Atlas Guy, Omni, Allegiant guy care? If you do not work at Kalitta, why is it any of your concern? Does K4 leaving 1224 impact you personally? Aside from ego, explain how. Come on, I dare you (And I honestly couldn’t give two Hillary’s if you tell me why) but this seems to me that it’s such a pressing need for you all to express yourselves on the topic of K4 union affiliation.

I flew with a guy that came from a regional represented by 747/357(?) and is now at K4.....almost 2 decades of teamster follies. I think he could be considered a SME on all things teamster and he had nothing good to say. And I agree with him that teamster is nothing more then a bad scam.

Or an ex girl friend trying to get you back.

Beans

Your a moron. Do you think a tiny pilot group like Kalitta could fully fund their negotiations? Do you have any understanding what the process costs?

No Land 3

Every man has his price...

DC8DRIVER

An argument that a few K4 pilot persist in spreading because they were impatient and afraid of a strike. Maybe they are senior and are feeling the pinch prior to retirement. Now they have convinced a few others that their word is gospel.

What on earth do you think a union should provide if not coordination between carriers who are in danger of being pitted against each other?? Should a union support their carriers undercutting each other? Would you support another ACMI carrier signing a contract with lower pay scales and cheaper work rules than you have? Don't you think customers would flock to this other cheaper carrier? Don't you think your more expensive carrier would suffer? Do you simply not understand the concept of unity among pilot groups? Have you never heard of airlines being whipsawed against each other?

I could understand you being upset if Teamsters wanted to shove a subpar contract down your throat, but they were fighting for better work rules for you. Not worse.

And FYI, Atlas and Southern pilots are fighting for each other AND for ABX pilots. That is what union unity is like.

8

fr8ghtdawg

Please break down the costs for us then Beans
How much money did K4 negotiating pilots spend? How much did outside counsel cost? How much for pilot displacement?
What were the fund totals prior to negotiations in the K4 assessment?
What percent was derived from the general fund?
If you have information that differs from what we were told, please elaborate.
There is no reason for insults.