Retirement Plan Negotiations?
03-24-2019, 02:00 PM
#163
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,418
Is our 130k Pension Stabilized or is it in fact, shrinking in real dollar terms.
It's the numbers that matter, not the terms. Although I haven't asked, think the descriptive verbiage was modified to remove the inclination of some folks to see the predictive results as a Windfall for newhires since their predicted Benefits are in the 170-190k range.
Or, in other words, the relative Value of our A plan is in the same ballpark.
No secret sauce needed, no weird funding needed to meet the floor.
As an example, totally theoretical never happen in the real world, what if the Crystal Ball said a balanced portfolio would return 4-4.5% year after year for 25 years. No big gains, but never less than 4.
How does that impact the proposed benefit calculations?
More than the floor?
Well, No, if the hurdle rate is negotiated at 5% the value of each and every pancake is going to be a loss each and every year. Supported only by the Floor Benefit calculation.
And, sorry to disillusion you, but One Rep alone doesn't have Veto Authority on whether to move forward or not.
Will be interesting to see\read what TonyC thinks now that he's been authorized to peak behind the curtain. See the numbers associated with our research and the NDA w/ the company.
It's the numbers that matter, not the terms. Although I haven't asked, think the descriptive verbiage was modified to remove the inclination of some folks to see the predictive results as a Windfall for newhires since their predicted Benefits are in the 170-190k range.
Or, in other words, the relative Value of our A plan is in the same ballpark.
No secret sauce needed, no weird funding needed to meet the floor.
As an example, totally theoretical never happen in the real world, what if the Crystal Ball said a balanced portfolio would return 4-4.5% year after year for 25 years. No big gains, but never less than 4.
How does that impact the proposed benefit calculations?
More than the floor?
Well, No, if the hurdle rate is negotiated at 5% the value of each and every pancake is going to be a loss each and every year. Supported only by the Floor Benefit calculation.
And, sorry to disillusion you, but One Rep alone doesn't have Veto Authority on whether to move forward or not.
Will be interesting to see\read what TonyC thinks now that he's been authorized to peak behind the curtain. See the numbers associated with our research and the NDA w/ the company.
03-24-2019, 02:03 PM
#164
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,418
If you don't think some people have the impression that only the newhires are gaining a windfall.
Think about how many people castigated the predicted payrates because they've been here 25 years and their pay isn't anywhere close to the 600+ bucks an hour the models predict 20 years from now.
Think about how many people castigated the predicted payrates because they've been here 25 years and their pay isn't anywhere close to the 600+ bucks an hour the models predict 20 years from now.
03-24-2019, 03:33 PM
#165
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Position: Socket Drawer
Posts: 1,797
Originally Posted by kronan
IAnd, sorry to disillusion you, but One Rep alone doesn't have Veto Authority on whether to move forward or not.
Will be interesting to see\read what TonyC thinks now that he's been authorized to peak behind the curtain. See the numbers associated with our research and the NDA w/ the company.
Will be interesting to see\read what TonyC thinks now that he's been authorized to peak behind the curtain. See the numbers associated with our research and the NDA w/ the company.
03-24-2019, 05:33 PM
#166
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Position: 757
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by kronan
Is our 130k Pension Stabilized or is it in fact, shrinking in real dollar terms.
It's the numbers that matter, not the terms. Although I haven't asked, think the descriptive verbiage was modified to remove the inclination of some folks to see the predictive results as a Windfall for newhires since their predicted Benefits are in the 170-190k range.
Or, in other words, the relative Value of our A plan is in the same ballpark.
No secret sauce needed, no weird funding needed to meet the floor.
As an example, totally theoretical never happen in the real world, what if the Crystal Ball said a balanced portfolio would return 4-4.5% year after year for 25 years. No big gains, but never less than 4.
How does that impact the proposed benefit calculations?
More than the floor?
Well, No, if the hurdle rate is negotiated at 5% the value of each and every pancake is going to be a loss each and every year. Supported only by the Floor Benefit calculation.
And, sorry to disillusion you, but One Rep alone doesn't have Veto Authority on whether to move forward or not.
Will be interesting to see\read what TonyC thinks now that he's been authorized to peak behind the curtain. See the numbers associated with our research and the NDA w/ the company.
It's the numbers that matter, not the terms. Although I haven't asked, think the descriptive verbiage was modified to remove the inclination of some folks to see the predictive results as a Windfall for newhires since their predicted Benefits are in the 170-190k range.
Or, in other words, the relative Value of our A plan is in the same ballpark.
No secret sauce needed, no weird funding needed to meet the floor.
As an example, totally theoretical never happen in the real world, what if the Crystal Ball said a balanced portfolio would return 4-4.5% year after year for 25 years. No big gains, but never less than 4.
How does that impact the proposed benefit calculations?
More than the floor?
Well, No, if the hurdle rate is negotiated at 5% the value of each and every pancake is going to be a loss each and every year. Supported only by the Floor Benefit calculation.
And, sorry to disillusion you, but One Rep alone doesn't have Veto Authority on whether to move forward or not.
Will be interesting to see\read what TonyC thinks now that he's been authorized to peak behind the curtain. See the numbers associated with our research and the NDA w/ the company.
03-24-2019, 07:36 PM
#167
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Position: 757
Posts: 146
If there was a floor there really would be no need to negotiate now would there? And since there is no floor and we do have to negotiate, how much faith do you have in our NC and MEC to protect us from the lack of concise and binding language to prevent future less than favorable interpretations by the company of what a floor would actually mean? What do lie flat seats and known R days really mean any way?
03-25-2019, 12:02 AM
#168
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by MelT
If there was a floor there really would be no need to negotiate now would there? And since there is no floor and we do have to negotiate, how much faith do you have in our NC and MEC to protect us from the lack of concise and binding language to prevent future less than favorable interpretations by the company of what a floor would actually mean? What do lie flat seats and known R days really mean any way?
03-25-2019, 03:30 AM
#169
Fill'er Up Again
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Scarebus Captain
Posts: 1,089
Originally Posted by MelT
If there was a floor there really would be no need to negotiate now would there? And since there is no floor and we do have to negotiate, how much faith do you have in our NC and MEC to protect us from the lack of concise and binding language to prevent future less than favorable interpretations by the company of what a floor would actually mean? What do lie flat seats and known R days really mean any way?
03-25-2019, 02:36 PM
#170
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
Originally Posted by FrankTheTank
It will go something like this... “This is ground breaking and so awesome that Delta wants it... We need to sign now.. We will add/fix the floor language in the next contract..”.
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