Atlas pilots deserve better? Teamsters 1224 v
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 611
The question soon will be ‘was the fight for Section 6 rights be worth it in the end’. If the outcome is a loss for the Atlas Exco there will be a lot of questions that need to be answered; specifically ‘how much did we lose over this time and why did you listen to lawyers who only benefited from this drawn-out process’.
Then again, if the judge rules in IBT’s favor it’s a massive win and will forever change the culture of the company for the better.
Then again, if the judge rules in IBT’s favor it’s a massive win and will forever change the culture of the company for the better.
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,343
Swapping unions would be a really bad idea right now. ALPA has some advantages over IBT, but IBT has some advantages over ALPA too.
#43
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 95
Yes it would be. While most of our problems lie with our current leadership and their failed tactics that are similar repeats of the past merger. I do have some miss givings of the Teamsters, going back to ALPA would be way worse. As a matter of fact, our current EXCO Chair was pro ALPA and pro non-merger back in the day on the first one. Spent most of his time giving lobbying parties to ALPA leadership while his nose was parking neatly in their posteriors to keep the merger from happening despite what he says today. If he had a choice, we would still be battling it out but the desertification of ALPA and the single carrier NMB determination fixed that.
Here is what ALPA said about us ACMI carriers as they did everything to burn us at Atlas while taking our dues money.
I've also noted an uptick by the new hires that they are tired of being blamed as the crux of the problem by our leadership. Tired of being asked when they are going to leave etc and they feel are blamed somehow to the ongoing problems the current campaign the EXCO is running of dissuading new hires to come here to gain leverage at the table. A spin off of the "complete operational merger" preached to the Polar guys back in those days they stood on to log jamb everything. With our turn over and the leaderships current tactics, they may only be in office for so long. Much how they got in under the last wave of new hires making promises they couldn't keep.
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 611
Yes it would be. While most of our problems lie with our current leadership and their failed tactics that are similar repeats of the past merger. I do have some miss givings of the Teamsters, going back to ALPA would be way worse. As a matter of fact, our current EXCO Chair was pro ALPA and pro non-merger back in the day on the first one. Spent most of his time giving lobbying parties to ALPA leadership while his nose was parking neatly in their posteriors to keep the merger from happening despite what he says today. If he had a choice, we would still be battling it out but the desertification of ALPA and the single carrier NMB determination fixed that.
Here is what ALPA said about us ACMI carriers as they did everything to burn us at Atlas while taking our dues money.
Here is what ALPA said about us ACMI carriers as they did everything to burn us at Atlas while taking our dues money.
I've also noted an uptick by the new hires that they are tired of being blamed as the crux of the problem by our leadership. Tired of being asked when they are going to leave etc and they feel are blamed somehow to the ongoing problems the current campaign the EXCO is running of dissuading new hires to come here to gain leverage at the table. A spin off of the "complete operational merger" preached to the Polar guys back in those days they stood on to log jamb everything. With our turn over and the leaderships current tactics, they may only be in office for so long. Much how they got in under the last wave of new hires making promises they couldn't keep.
#45
I do agree with his point that you cannot change unions. Atlas is the one carrier that should never change unions. They ARE 1224. It doesn’t get any better than this. Other locals paying for some of their expenses and they are in complete control of their destiny. What might need to change is the strategy. I write might because this internet mess is hopefully just an illusion perpetrated by an above average negotiation team. At times it does seem a little ham handed.
You need to always trust your negotiating committee regardless as to how things appear to be. What do you have to lose? Changing things at this point could only guarantee one thing. A longer negotiation. I wish them well and hope they kick ass.
You need to always trust your negotiating committee regardless as to how things appear to be. What do you have to lose? Changing things at this point could only guarantee one thing. A longer negotiation. I wish them well and hope they kick ass.
#46
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,358
ALPA isn’t going to do anything more for you guys than any other union. ALPA National is all about the money, their money. They love to collect dues and talk about standing firm, but when it’s actually time to take a stand they tuck tail and run. They were all talk leading up to the Polar strike until the pilots got released. Once they realized that they were going to have to spend more money than they would recover from such a small group they suddenly encouraged the pilots to take the companies offer. That offer was worse than the contract that they were trying to replace. The problems at Atlas are with who you have to negotiate with. I can’t speak to who you have in your union trying to negotiate with them since I’m not there. If you’re not happy with their methods I’d bet that you’d be better off replacing individual negotiators than replacing the IBT with something else.
#47
Its not like ALPA will airlift a crack team into the seniority list handing us expert MECs and negotiating teams. Regardless of affiliation an airline union is simply made up of pilots on its seniority list.
If you're thinking ALPA national will do anything more than Teamsters national you're deluding yourself. If you want a better union it's up to you, the member.
If you're thinking ALPA national will do anything more than Teamsters national you're deluding yourself. If you want a better union it's up to you, the member.
#48
and pray tell how does ALPA prevent management tricks to manipulate and delay under the RLA that these other unions do not?
I'm not an ALPA detractor, far from it, they have produced great things for pilots, but your comments suggest a partisan view and ignores the contributions of other pilot unions that are successful for all of us too.
Oh, and somehow the APA must be terrific as you didn't disparage those fine folks and think they are a weak union. Perhaps folks can explore APA success.
#49
Lead Guitar & Vocals
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 146
Its not like ALPA will airlift a crack team into the seniority list handing us expert MECs and negotiating teams. Regardless of affiliation an airline union is simply made up of pilots on its seniority list.
If you're thinking ALPA national will do anything more than Teamsters national you're deluding yourself. If you want a better union it's up to you, the member.
If you're thinking ALPA national will do anything more than Teamsters national you're deluding yourself. If you want a better union it's up to you, the member.
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,236
Its not like ALPA will airlift a crack team into the seniority list handing us expert MECs and negotiating teams. Regardless of affiliation an airline union is simply made up of pilots on its seniority list.
If you're thinking ALPA national will do anything more than Teamsters national you're deluding yourself. If you want a better union it's up to you, the member.
If you're thinking ALPA national will do anything more than Teamsters national you're deluding yourself. If you want a better union it's up to you, the member.
Good post.
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