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Old 06-15-2019, 05:40 AM
  #17591  
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Thanks for all the updates. Looks like all the stuff I’ve heard about Atlas was wrong. Time to look elsewhere. Safe flying everyone!
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Old 06-15-2019, 01:39 PM
  #17592  
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Originally Posted by atpcliff View Post
I have flown with a number of Atlas pilots, over the years, and have not met anyone with the characteristics you have mentioned. I have flown with a very few Atlas pilots who had problems with CRM...none of them are at Atlas anymore.
I flew with two of them in my final 3 months. They do exist.
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:24 AM
  #17593  
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Originally Posted by V1AutoPilot View Post
No K4, and I've read a fair amount of the threads. Plenty of friends at Atlas and WG. Many on 767 / 747 for Atlas.

Leaning towards Atlas seeing as I don't mind working extra for some pay. Probably stay until Delta or Southwest offers come (probably 5-8 years on a conservative estimate). Heavy type and international experience can never hurt.

I suppose I just don't want to go into Atlas blind and find any strongly sickening info too late. Care to hit me with some mines I'll be dodging? Besides the whipsaw and contract negotiations. If Atlas wants to keep Amazon a contract is inevitable and I imagine will be Kalitta pay at minimum for industry standard.
Great. Another company hero. Exactly what we need.
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Old 06-23-2019, 06:15 PM
  #17594  
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Originally Posted by Turbine1 View Post
For those looking at Atlas, the company won in arbitration yesterday against the union efforts on the Southern side to stop the amalgamation of the Atlas and Southern CBA’s. The union had a stronger argument re Southern. Atlas will now very likely prevail with the second arbitrator and amalgamation will proceed.

Our CEO and COO are on record this very week saying “We will never get FDX or UPS rates”. DOT statistics show AAWW is the number 2 cargo airline in Freight Ton Kilometers carried, slightly behind FDX. Our productivity per pilot is double FDX and UPS; that doesn’t even include our daily pax flights....but we don’t deserve FDX or UPS compensation “because they’re not our competitors”.

The facts. The AAWW pilot group will be the only pilots in the US to never be allowed a vote on their CBA. As currently you’ll make 60% or more less than industry standard pay, with no work rules. You’ll self fund your retirement. Substandard vacation and sick leave; if you get seriously sick or lose your license too bad as there is no long term disability. Training is self study with no AQP because it would cost the company more money. Failure rates are heading north of 30%. The company has plainly stated for our next CBA they wish to eliminate all instructors on our seniority list and replace them with low paid contract instructors, eliminate the gateway travel program and all domestic catering. The pilot group will fund whatever pay raise an arbitrator imposes in 2 to 3 years with those cost savings. As it was here in the 90’s...again it will be travel to work on your days off on other airlines metal, no commuter clauses and pay for your in base hotels. There goes your pay raise.

There will be lots of vacancies as hundreds of Atlas/Southern pilots are now off the fence and will be updating their apps to GTFO as I am, now that the future is in sight.

Given our statistics, management and litigation path forward should you join the ranks you will work twice as hard for less than half the pay. The historical Jeff Bezos worker model. It’s no coincidence AAWW is the Belle of the ball for an Amazon Prime Air/DHL partnership.
Your right. I was one of those guys who was on the fence. But now I’ve jumped off and GTFO.
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Old 07-01-2019, 01:00 PM
  #17595  
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From latest update regarding negotiations:

> At the meeting, I was particularly alarmed by some of the comments that company officials made. Company executives expressed their main goals relating to Scope to include the ability to dry lease aircraft without being constrained by any protections for the Atlas and Southern pilots if they decide to sell off all or part of the company. They further told us that having pilots attached to the business might reduce what they can get for any given part of the company. <

And 'boom goes the dynamite'...

Anyone hoping to get in the door early before a new contract to try to beat the rush? You are not only helping to delay the very thing you are hoping for & enabling their bad anti-labor/union busting behavior to continue unabated...but also walking into a potential field of landmines. You could easily (& with no warning) find yourself splintered off to who knows where, working for who knows what as a very junior pilot with no job protections at a much smaller company...and under a terrible amalgamated/arbitrated (read: no leverage & no vote) contract to boot...or maybe not even that much, ymmv. (You know those "Congratulations, you just played yourself" memes? Yeah, basically like that.)

ps- If I had a dollar for every new f/o that mentioned some version of the phrase "I feel like I made a big mistake [coming here]..." well I wouldn't exactly be a millionaire but I could take my wife out to a nice dinner more often.

Caveat emptor ("let the buyer beware.")

pps- In investing there is a cautionary phrase "don't try to catch a falling knife" - meaning basically don't try to time the market on a falling stock as you are likely to get cut. Let it hit the floor, bounce a few times...then go pick it up if it still looks like a good value. Something to think about here as well.

Last edited by Crusoe; 07-01-2019 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 07-01-2019, 04:25 PM
  #17596  
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Originally Posted by Crusoe View Post
From latest update regarding negotiations:

> At the meeting, I was particularly alarmed by some of the comments that company officials made. Company executives expressed their main goals relating to Scope to include the ability to dry lease aircraft without being constrained by any protections for the Atlas and Southern pilots if they decide to sell off all or part of the company. They further told us that having pilots attached to the business might reduce what they can get for any given part of the company. <

ps- If I had a dollar for every new f/o that mentioned some version of the phrase "I feel like I made a big mistake [coming here]..." well I wouldn't exactly be a millionaire but I could take my wife out to a nice dinner more often.

Caveat emptor ("let the buyer beware).
Caveat emptor indeed. Be advised any potential new hire that comes here now before a new CBA is ratified and our Scope is ironclad ( if the pilot group gets any chance to vote and amend Scope from the arbitrator ) will have tenuous job security at best.

A new CBA is years away, contrary to what recruiters will tell you. A data point; only 15 out of 35 articles in the new contract have been TA’d in 3.5 years and the company only agrees to meet 3 or 4 days once a month and there’s been many months where they’ve refused to meet. Their propaganda website states “the union is delaying negotiations”. Sure.

If the company thinks they can gain a cost savings, fragment the union, make more profit or generally keep the pilot group under their thumb they can and will not hesitate to part and parcel out flying and airframes, job losses be dammed. They’ve done it before as little as a decade ago with their offshoring union busting Stanstead base for European pilots to do our flying. Our scope has more holes in it than Swiss cheese and now the execs are gunning for what little job protections we do have. Past is prologue, it’s about to get real ugly at Atlas/Southern; this cannot be overstated.

Last edited by Turbine1; 07-01-2019 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 07-02-2019, 03:48 PM
  #17597  
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Originally Posted by Turbine1 View Post
Caveat emptor indeed. Be advised any potential new hire that comes here now before a new CBA is ratified and our Scope is ironclad ( if the pilot group gets any chance to vote and amend Scope from the arbitrator ) will have tenuous job security at best.
Not an issue. Most are just going to get the type rating and leave anyway.
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Old 07-20-2019, 03:10 PM
  #17598  
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The top 5 executives have been granted retention bonuses. They will each get $500,000 at the end of 2020 and another 1 Million $ each at the end of 2021. So obviously something big is happening in the next 2 years. Either a sell out or Chapter 11 and the top 5 executives jobs are in jeopardy, thus the retention bonuses. Another reason not to come to Atlas.

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Old 07-20-2019, 09:02 PM
  #17599  
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Just for a little clarification for those who might think that the company being sold would be a good thing (as in, Amazon) and thus a reason to get on property, keep this in mind:

In the latest scope negotiation with the company, the company said that they want scope that will allow them to vastly grow their dry leasing business. I.E., they want the ability to start leasing out our fleet without leasing the crews along with it.

Additionally, the company has implied that they want to make sure that in the next CBA that the pilots are not tied to the airframes. They think that if the pilots on property have the right to fly our own airframes (translation: our job security) that they will not be able to sell the company as easily.

AAWH has big plans in the future. Unfortunately, these plans do not seem to include any of the crewmembers who have grown this airline on their backs.

Remember, we do not have a single ACMI agreement with Amazon. We have leased Amazon airframes for a period of 10 years, and then separately have leased crew services for a period of 7 years (of which, we have maybe 3.5 remaining). The deal was intentionally written so that, after 7 years (or even sooner with 180 days written notice), all of the crewmembers at Atlas/Southern will be kicked off of the airplanes that they have been flying.
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Old 07-25-2019, 04:39 AM
  #17600  
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Feast or Famine, I would say Feast comparatively speaking. Record high OT right now, correct me if I’m wrong. Amazing this early in the 3rd Qtr. Not even near 4th Qtr yet so that will be interesting.

4th Qtr comes along - OT will may become like getting folks to give up their seats due to overbooking. “200% with free tickets to Disney, how about 250%... No, 300%, OK 400% with a Costco membership, Disney tickets and 10% off your next Amazon purchase via rebate (must be over $1000 and purchased within 72 hours).

Sorry, just spitballing. But I will make some popcorn.
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