Flying in Europe
04-09-2012, 12:39 PM
#1
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Flying in Europe
Not sure if this affects those U S folks wanting to work in Europe or pilots employed by U S air carriers just going in and out.
New Pilot Rules In Effect In Europe
New Pilot Rules In Effect In Europe
04-09-2012, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by f10a
What a crock of shisse! Time to ban these arrogant wankers from flying into our countries!
Now our FAA should step up to the plate and stiffen up the requirements of those from Euroland seeking flight training.
It's not personal... strictly business.
04-09-2012, 06:45 PM
#4
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Posts: 42
Europe has declared war to aviation. Just look at the emission taxes.... With this kind of b.s. the FAA should have them retrain their pilots to fly to the u.s.... maybe they would accept a visual aproach when the airspace is congested an ATC is trying to expedite and save them some fuel instead of their "full instrument aproaches only" policies...
04-09-2012, 06:47 PM
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Whoa whoa guys, before you start accusing them of not letting foreigners fly in Europe, let's understand what the new regs are saying...
For those unfamiliar with the new EASA regulations... let me explain them:
Any pilot who RESIDES in the EU, or flying a plane based in the EU, must do a conversion to an EASA licese, regardless of the state of registry of the aircraft.
This does not affect any airline pilots working for US companies. This does not affect the adventurers who fly a plane across the Atlantic and land in Europe while on their way to fly around the world.
Who does this affect? Those living here. For example, I know a guy at my local airfield here in Spain with an N-registered Cessna. He holds an Australian CASA PPL and an FAA PPL. Since he resides in Spain, this new requirement means that he will have to ALSO hold an EASA PPL in addition to his FAA PPL just to fly his N-Registered airplane.
This does not affect commercial pilots as much, since all of us have had to do the (costly) conversion, but it does affect some. For example, there are many private jets and turboprops registered in the US (I heard up to 19% of the GA fleet in Europe is N-Registered). These pilots all hold an FAA CPL or ATP, but the new regulation will require them to also hold an EASA CPL/ATPL. Many of these pilots are EU citizens, some of them unable to meet the stricter medical requirements of EASA, and unable to move to countries such as the US or Canada or Australia due to lack of residence permits. As a result, these pilots will be unable to continue working in Europe and it could possibly be the end of their careers if they don't find work anywhere else abroad.
I also know two pilots who have been working at a French flying school that has been doing FAA ratings only for many years. I met them because they were converting their licenses with me at the same time. They had been flying on their FAA ratings for years without any problem, but the new regulation is requiring them to get EASA licenses at significant cost despite the fact that they have been operating legally and safely in European airspace for years.
I don't see the point of ICAO now. You see, the FAA will give a PPL certificate based on a foreign certificate in order to fly N-registered aircraft under FAR 61.75. If someone with a foreign license who wishes to fly a foreign aircraft that matches the same registration as their country of license issue can fly as much as they'd like in the US without asking for said 61.75 certificate. In Europe, they want everyone to do two of the PPL exams and the flight test, and the medical. (Before EASA, it was possible to fly G registered aircraft at the PPL level with any foreign ICAO PPL). General Aviation is getting more and more out of reach in Europe. Some of this legislation was designed to protect the European flight training industry, because they can't match the better price of aviation in places such as the USA, but instead of improving infrastructure and reducing user fees in order to compete at the same level, they sit in Brussels and come up with ways that end up stifling general aviation.
Many European pilots are against the new regulations and AOPA international has been trying to fight this for awhile, but AOPA does not have the same kind of influence in Europe as they do in the US.
Also, new regulations will affect aircraft maintenance centers. There are some centers who specialize in FAA regulated maintenace, specifically to cater to the N-registered owned crowd, but new regulations will require them to ALSO get EASA certification which costs much more to maintain due to high fees. This will increase costs for aircraft owners in Europe who saved money by operating N-registered aircraft.
These new regs are actually going to HURT the US training industry. Pilots will be less likely to want to own a N-registered aircraft, if any aircraft at all, because the cost savings will go away. This means that there will be no point for them to go to the US and get a private pilot license. Remember, those who go to the US and get a CPL, then wish to return to Europe and work still have to do the full blown conversion as before. In fact, ultralight aviation (which looks much more like the FAA's Light Sport category) is growing in popularity because of increasing regulations. Those flying around the UK in G-registered aircraft on their FAA/CASA/TC/etc non EASA license will no longer be allowed to do so. Getting that cheaper foreign (but still ICAO) will be a moot point.
How else does this affect aircraft owners? Well, in FAA land, an owner of an aircraft can get instruction in his own aircraft, and do a checkride in said aircraft. Not so in Europe. Each tail number in Europe must be on an approved list by the authority, through an approved training provider. So, Mr. private plane owner who needs to get his EASA license will not be able to do it in his private plane. He will have to pay a flying school to be able to use their plane for training and the flight tests even though he owns his own plane and has been flying it for years without problems.
Here is the best part... those of us living here will have to get the EASA license in addition to our foreign license to keep flying our foreigner registered aircraft here. However, when Mr. Adventurer flies his Cessna across the Atlantic and has never flown into Europe before, he does not need the EASA license, yet those of us who live here need one. The new regulation does not do anything to add to safety. It only adds $$$.
In summary, the new rules affect primarily general aviation, and also those working in Europe on foreign aircraft BASED in Europe. Otherwise, the process for Americans (and all other foreigners and also Europeans) who have done non-JAA/EASA training first remains the same (which is still a terribly expensive and painful process!). Those who live abroad but fly in and out of Europe won't be affected.
Sorry for the essay paper.
For those unfamiliar with the new EASA regulations... let me explain them:
Any pilot who RESIDES in the EU, or flying a plane based in the EU, must do a conversion to an EASA licese, regardless of the state of registry of the aircraft.
This does not affect any airline pilots working for US companies. This does not affect the adventurers who fly a plane across the Atlantic and land in Europe while on their way to fly around the world.
Who does this affect? Those living here. For example, I know a guy at my local airfield here in Spain with an N-registered Cessna. He holds an Australian CASA PPL and an FAA PPL. Since he resides in Spain, this new requirement means that he will have to ALSO hold an EASA PPL in addition to his FAA PPL just to fly his N-Registered airplane.
This does not affect commercial pilots as much, since all of us have had to do the (costly) conversion, but it does affect some. For example, there are many private jets and turboprops registered in the US (I heard up to 19% of the GA fleet in Europe is N-Registered). These pilots all hold an FAA CPL or ATP, but the new regulation will require them to also hold an EASA CPL/ATPL. Many of these pilots are EU citizens, some of them unable to meet the stricter medical requirements of EASA, and unable to move to countries such as the US or Canada or Australia due to lack of residence permits. As a result, these pilots will be unable to continue working in Europe and it could possibly be the end of their careers if they don't find work anywhere else abroad.
I also know two pilots who have been working at a French flying school that has been doing FAA ratings only for many years. I met them because they were converting their licenses with me at the same time. They had been flying on their FAA ratings for years without any problem, but the new regulation is requiring them to get EASA licenses at significant cost despite the fact that they have been operating legally and safely in European airspace for years.
I don't see the point of ICAO now. You see, the FAA will give a PPL certificate based on a foreign certificate in order to fly N-registered aircraft under FAR 61.75. If someone with a foreign license who wishes to fly a foreign aircraft that matches the same registration as their country of license issue can fly as much as they'd like in the US without asking for said 61.75 certificate. In Europe, they want everyone to do two of the PPL exams and the flight test, and the medical. (Before EASA, it was possible to fly G registered aircraft at the PPL level with any foreign ICAO PPL). General Aviation is getting more and more out of reach in Europe. Some of this legislation was designed to protect the European flight training industry, because they can't match the better price of aviation in places such as the USA, but instead of improving infrastructure and reducing user fees in order to compete at the same level, they sit in Brussels and come up with ways that end up stifling general aviation.
Many European pilots are against the new regulations and AOPA international has been trying to fight this for awhile, but AOPA does not have the same kind of influence in Europe as they do in the US.
Also, new regulations will affect aircraft maintenance centers. There are some centers who specialize in FAA regulated maintenace, specifically to cater to the N-registered owned crowd, but new regulations will require them to ALSO get EASA certification which costs much more to maintain due to high fees. This will increase costs for aircraft owners in Europe who saved money by operating N-registered aircraft.
Originally Posted by captjns
Now our FAA should step up to the plate and stiffen up the requirements of those from Euroland seeking flight training.
How else does this affect aircraft owners? Well, in FAA land, an owner of an aircraft can get instruction in his own aircraft, and do a checkride in said aircraft. Not so in Europe. Each tail number in Europe must be on an approved list by the authority, through an approved training provider. So, Mr. private plane owner who needs to get his EASA license will not be able to do it in his private plane. He will have to pay a flying school to be able to use their plane for training and the flight tests even though he owns his own plane and has been flying it for years without problems.
Here is the best part... those of us living here will have to get the EASA license in addition to our foreign license to keep flying our foreigner registered aircraft here. However, when Mr. Adventurer flies his Cessna across the Atlantic and has never flown into Europe before, he does not need the EASA license, yet those of us who live here need one. The new regulation does not do anything to add to safety. It only adds $$$.
In summary, the new rules affect primarily general aviation, and also those working in Europe on foreign aircraft BASED in Europe. Otherwise, the process for Americans (and all other foreigners and also Europeans) who have done non-JAA/EASA training first remains the same (which is still a terribly expensive and painful process!). Those who live abroad but fly in and out of Europe won't be affected.
Sorry for the essay paper.
Last edited by zondaracer; 04-09-2012 at 07:29 PM. Reason: add info
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