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Thoughts on iPad for VFR Flight...

Old 09-03-2014, 12:10 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by OnCenterline View Post
Okay, I don't normally say something like this on APC, but there are 2 places I hope you don't wind up: on my seniority list, or in management.
I bet when you rented airplanes you insisted on Hand-propping the airplane because that's they way it used to be. I say anything that increases situational awareness of a pilot should be used if available. One thing about building time towards a career as an airline pilot, is this: You violate any airspace, break a FAR and your flying career is OVER as far as airlines are concerned - something military pilots are not exposed to. Their Military flight record as far as mishaps and airspace violations, accidents etc stay with their squadron commander/or whoever keeps those files, and are not a public matter
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:19 PM
  #22  
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Who said "plotting waypoints" cant be direct? Pilotage waypoints, VOR cross radials, DME from a VOR etc, etc. can't all be plotted on a direct route? You always have some sort of landmark you can still "plot waypoints" for. You are far over thinking this. Also, bring you damn Ipad, and a sectional. Then, if it so suits you AFTER making a true flight plan for you to follow along with you still have it as a back up, or even a primary. The school you are renting from probably just wants you to do all your math (including ETA, ETE etc).
But seriously, if marking a few waypoints down on a piece of paper with approximate time enroute to is an issue. I wont say, get out of aviation. But damn man, you are a pilot. Deal with it. Or get out. Because pilot life will be rough for you when you cant do things exactly how you want all the time. Trust me, things never go exactly as planned in aviation.

Last edited by Aviator89; 09-03-2014 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:56 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by KF5OVP View Post
My point is that I prefer to go direct. I feel like if the iPad did fail, I still would have a sectional to look at, VOR,etc. I don't see the need in plotting courses. And I know how much gas I'm consuming. I can plot direct, I don't want to plot waypoints.
What am I missing? You can't plot a straight course line and fly a wind corrected heading using pilotage?

I think it's a fair question to ask if you have an instrument rating, if not, what's the big deal to practice skill that should fundamental? I'd also echo the comments about "it's their plane, don't like it go somewhere else". Either agree to the policy and abide by it, or don't and go somewhere else.

There are tons of ways to safely operate and aircraft, but If you're looking to work as a pilot at some point, get used to flying you're employer's way. You'll find it to be a very short career if you fly your way because you know best, or a policy is a hassle, or whatever. If that's truly your attitude, you can stay outta my cockpit also.

Last edited by CRM114; 09-03-2014 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 09-03-2014, 07:06 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
What am I missing? You can't plot a straight course line and fly a wind corrected heading using pilotage?

I think it's a fair question to ask if you have an instrument rating, if not, what's the big deal to practice skill that should fundamental? I'd also echo the comments about "it's their plane, don't like it go somewhere else". Either agree to the policy and abide by it, or don't and go somewhere else.

There are tons of ways to safely operate and aircraft, but If you're looking to work as a pilot at some point, get used to flying you're employer's way. You'll find it to be a very short career if you fly your way because you know best, or a policy is a hassle, or whatever. If that's truly your attitude, you can stay outta my cockpit also.
Why are you beating up on this guy. Nobody plots a course anymore - fixes are entered into the FMC and it draws a magenta line to your destination. Have you seen what Garmin has done for General Aviation?
They are making VOR's practically obsolete. Sure, it's good practice but if you want to practice something that will do you some good in the future, learn "Glass" - Boeing FMC stuff and know it inside and out because if your ultimate goal is flying for an airline, you'll need this (don't bother with Airbus glass because the bus is junk :-) ) But your point about doing what your employer tells you, like how to fly their airplanes. But give the guy a break, he wants to increase his situational awareness NOT his workload.
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Old 09-03-2014, 07:57 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by krudawg View Post
Why are you beating up on this guy. Nobody plots a course anymore - fixes are entered into the FMC and it draws a magenta line to your destination. Have you seen what Garmin has done for General Aviation?
They are making VOR's practically obsolete. Sure, it's good practice but if you want to practice something that will do you some good in the future, learn "Glass" - Boeing FMC stuff and know it inside and out because if your ultimate goal is flying for an airline, you'll need this (don't bother with Airbus glass because the bus is junk :-) ) But your point about doing what your employer tells you, like how to fly their airplanes. But give the guy a break, he wants to increase his situational awareness NOT his workload.
Oh you're a child of the magenta line (CML)... useless.
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Old 09-03-2014, 08:24 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by krudawg View Post
Why are you beating up on this guy. Nobody plots a course anymore - fixes are entered into the FMC and it draws a magenta line to your destination. Have you seen what Garmin has done for General Aviation?
They are making VOR's practically obsolete. Sure, it's good practice but if you want to practice something that will do you some good in the future, learn "Glass" - Boeing FMC stuff and know it inside and out because if your ultimate goal is flying for an airline, you'll need this (don't bother with Airbus glass because the bus is junk :-) ) But your point about doing what your employer tells you, like how to fly their airplanes. But give the guy a break, he wants to increase his situational awareness NOT his workload.
I know it's not in vogue in our society, but let's agree to disagree.

If he's bumping around in a 152 my guess is there are some basic skills he should have and it sounds like the owner of the plane thinks so too. I guess that what irks me the most; instead of voting with his wallet and not flying that plane, he turned the internet to find justification to not follow the rules that come with the rental.
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Old 09-06-2014, 02:15 AM
  #27  
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I love all the gee wiz stuff, but when it all fails, and it will, you need to actually think, like how to use a VOR or NDB, old school flying will save you're ass when you're pretty glass cockpit goes dark.
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Old 09-06-2014, 08:23 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by PROFILECLIMB View Post
I love all the gee wiz stuff, but when it all fails, and it will, you need to actually think, like how to use a VOR or NDB, old school flying will save you're ass when you're pretty glass cockpit goes dark.
I agree 100% on those NDBs... I also saved all my old 8-track tapes too.. never know when that fancy iPod might die on me lol.. I also think it's really cool how the ADF needle goes crazy & becomes useless near any kind of electrical interference or storm...

You know what the celestial navigation old timers used to say to these young kids with their fancy new direction finders right? Exactly.

Folks.. GPS.. WAAS. LAAS. RAIM. This technology is here now and the truth is it is very reliable.

Having said all that my students still learn cross country navigation via Pilotage and Dead Reckoning. But once you are proficient, no reason not to fly with the GPS if you choose to.
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Old 09-07-2014, 02:52 AM
  #29  
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I might as well contribute my .02 as well...

Personally, I feel if the school requires this as part of the rental agreement than you should do as asked. If it's only a short flight than it shouldn't take you more than a few minutes and is great practice. "Use it or lose it." If it's a longer flight it still shouldn't take long and may really come in handy at some point.

By all means take your iPad along and use it for a backup and an additional source of information.

Don't become a pilot who can't figure out a holding pattern entry given at the last minute because they can't program the FMS quickly enough or a fuel burn because the GPS isn't telling you. There will be times you need to know how to fly with basic information available to you.

I still fly departures and approaches in the Airbus whenever possible with just the raw data ILS and RMI needles but then I always enjoyed being a pilot and using the skills that I learned whether it was old school or new school.
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Old 09-07-2014, 03:29 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by lstorm2003 View Post
I agree 100% on those NDBs... I also saved all my old 8-track tapes too.. never know when that fancy iPod might die on me lol.. I also think it's really cool how the ADF needle goes crazy & becomes useless near any kind of electrical interference or storm...

You know what the celestial navigation old timers used to say to these young kids with their fancy new direction finders right? Exactly.

Folks.. GPS.. WAAS. LAAS. RAIM. This technology is here now and the truth is it is very reliable.

Having said all that my students still learn cross country navigation via Pilotage and Dead Reckoning. But once you are proficient, no reason not to fly with the GPS if you choose to.
Yeah until you get to an airport that ONLY has a NDB/DME... But you don't need that ancient stuff do ya?

Or when the DME is on MEL and the FO can't figure out what a "crossing radial" is.

Relying on easy mode all the time because it's always there is not necessarily a recipe for disaster, but it is a recipe for bad airmanship.
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