WHACKMASTER

I don't care how it rings with you. We lost an average of 22% relative seniority while your side gained an average of 8%. You "captured" the vast majority of our Cptn seats while we lost the vast majority of ours. So yeah, we were slighted more than others. Sorry if that's an inconvenient truth to you.

WHACKMASTER

My friend who just finished transition training witnessed four NH classes while down in DAL and ran the numbers. About 90% of the NHs were ex-military with no prior airline experience. So the numbers support the "crap that comes out of my trap".

As for "Now, every tranny is senior to me. No interview, no probation and a pay raise for most", it makes perfect sense why you were hired at SWA with that kind if elitist mentality. THEY WERE ALL HIRED AT AT BEFORE YOU WERE HIRED AT SWA!

You of all people should have the experience and broad perspective to know that usually airlines mergers and acquisitions aren't typically the mass raping and pillaging of seats and seniority that this one was.

Wow, what a concept....all AT pilots are now senior to you. You got hired AFTER the Date of Merger announcement, AFTER the snapshot of the seniority lists and most importantly AFTER all of those AirTran pilots date of hire. So you propose putting them behind you? Is that right?

Oh and for the record, it's NOT been a pay raise for most. All of the FOs yes, but a paycut for the other half of our pilot group.

No probation? Have you ever heard of another merger/acquisition where one group of pilots was placed on probation? Where the hell do you guys come up with these insulting and off the wall ideas?!

I too apologize for the thread drift, but the record continues to need to be set straight apparently.

Woodbourne

Precisely why I blame the parties previously mentioned. You did not want to work at wn and I did not want to work at air tran. For whatever reason, each pilot at at chose to not apply or was unable to get hired at southwest. It is commonly accepted that wn used to be very selective. You are correct that the majority of nh are old retired military. That's because very few young guys in this market believe that the explosive growth if we buy Air tran line is true.

Wn was considered by most pilots as a stronger and more financially robust airline than citrus. The financial piece is indesputable and therefore one of the main reasons I set my particular career path in that direction. My mistake was believing that the culture was important to Gary; it's not anymore. Not sure if it has been since the acquisition.

I knew what I was in for when I signed up, I'm just very disappointed in the hollowness and bs they tried to feed us with re to being Rsw pilots. I have zero elitism in wearing this uniform

As to putting all or any trannies behind me, I'm not even close to that naive. What I said before was I wish it would have gone to arbitration. A lot can happen with fences, loss of aircraft and holding companies

OscartheGrouch

[QUOTE=WHACKMASTER;1710311]My friend who just finished transition training witnessed four NH classes while down in DAL and ran the numbers. About 90% of the NHs were ex-military with no prior airline experience. So the numbers support the "crap that comes out of my trap".

I asked this question before and received no reply from the great WM.

What exactly is your beef with hiring former military folks? What should be the ratio? Is this a chip on your shoulder or do you have a logical explanation for thinking someone else should be hired?

Frankly I would advise younger pilots to go somewhere else because of the career possibilities that are projected. Older military folks who have already flown the best aircraft they will ever fly and do not care about upgrade might be a better bet as far as retention goes.

I am flying with a retired military guy now who could care less about upgrade to the left seat. QOL and family are more important. The seat and size of equipment may be all some have to look forward to. Others, including myself, have already experienced job satisfaction in the military. This is just bus driving. Schedule, time off, and family are more important.

The idea that "I am a captain at an airline" means nothing. If I disappear tomorrow it would take a week or so and everyone will be saying "Oscar who"?


Man up WM and answer my questions.

The Oscar

Thread drift be d..........

Another question that has never been answered is where the great WM should have been (or the average AirTran pilot) on a "fair" SLI?

Sa227capt

For all the guys complaining, Air Tran, or new hire, or whatever, you all know Delta, and United, etc. are hiring right? Just an observation...

OscartheGrouch

EXACTLY!

Woodbourne

That is a poor statement. Seniority is a handcuff for anyone off first year pay and over 40. A better alternative would be to say "xyz in Asia is hiring street captains". Let's be intellectually honest

ZapBrannigan

It also disregards the reality that only recently has the "lost decade" come to a close. Yes, several legacies are hiring, but everybody with a pilots license and a pulse are competing for those jobs. That is even more of a challenge for those who were in their late twenties / early thirties at the beginning of the lost decade and now are facing their 40s with a choice: wait and hope that the prom queen will go to the dance with you -- or go with the first pretty girl who is willing to do so knowing that time is running out.

"Just go somewhere else" is easy to say, but much more difficult to execute in a timely fashion.

Sa227capt

Umm... Im over 40, and STILL, chose Southwest out of all the others. I've been in the industry for almost 20 years. Life is what you make of it. As far as seniority, it is the nature of this job. If you cannot handle it, I think you chose the wrong profession.

As far as Asia, do you know anyone that went? I do and the money may be great but the quality of life is terrible. If that's your thing, then go do that.

I am perfectly happy enjoying my time until upgrade. Been PIC flying all over the world and am perfectly happy with the potential to make more money here than anywhere else. This is my choice and what I said was not a poor statement. It was a fact. Make your own choice is all I'm saying.

Boogie Nights

You need to worry about what comes out of your trap. You should show respect to people you do not know. Me thinks as you come across as an entitled (enter favorite expletive here).
You know what, everyone worked hard to get here civilian and military alike. Me 24 years in the military. In the 8 years of active duty flying I spent 5 years and 5 days deployed overseas. Most places were over 100 degrees with 12 foot walls with armed guards for my protection which I was not allowed to leave. Can you say prison? I did it because it was a choice I made and a commitment to my country and our way of life (sorry about the flag waving) and for 12 years after active duty I have continued my commitment in the guard.

My point is that it was a choice I made so I never ever complained. I stuck it out. You must have made some poor choices and got furloughed and merged. Why complain about the rules of a game you have already started to play? You need to man up and deal with the hand you are dealt.

So poor you. You make 40% more than I do to do an arguably worse job (premerger) as an airline team. We were #1 Quality, #1 Bag handling, #2 On time (behind Hawaiian no snow delays there), and more bang for buck. We figured out how to go international and even fly in waters airspace without having to re invent the wheel. We even brought our own airplanes, a positive attitude and great team spirit (Initially) only to have SWA and SWAPA squander the full potential. Yes we had our challenges, problems and dysfunction but at the end of the day our hard work was reflected in AQR rankings of #1 four of the six years I worked at AT premerger and #2 once. Last time SWA had a Triple Crown I believe was 1997 (yes I know there is a difference).

Guys hired at SWA the same day as I are 1600+ numbers senior to me.
I bet you were not at SWA when it was a scrappy little upstart when work was hard and wages low. Have you ever built anything or do you just complain you did not get your fair share of something you did not contribute to?

I have been told about guys like you. Most of the SWA guys I have met are awesome and I look forward to flying with them, but it is guys like you I worry about.

Yeah mergers are tough on everybody but where you feel it is beneath you to sling the gear I accept that it is my responsibility and I will do the best job I can ( I would bet my qualifications are equal to or exceed yours). If it is beneath your station to be a first officer please feel free to go some place where you will be more appreciated.

You made some half hearted apologies in later replies to tone it down but your initial vitriol belies your true feelings.

Sorry guys for the rant but when someone tells me to shut my trap without knowing me I get edgy.

Looking forward to the day team SWA rule the rankings again.

You all fly safe
B-