WHACKMASTER

Absolutely spot on assessment. I've been "through the play book" a couple of times. This is about chapter 3. More to come for sure.

REF 5

Actually the best next step is for the unions to go public. Start showing up with signs at the Message to the field. Picket at the Message to the Field. Next is the share holders meeting(that will definitely get the BOD and wallstreet's attention). Once that's done start to picketing every where. Start Family awareness events to get everybody in line for the possible tough decisions that the union may have to make. The one thing that management will ****** over is start coordinating events with the other unions. Pilots and FA's having public events together and even joining the GA's/ops agents and rampers on some of their events will for sure make management nervous. Ask Randy Babbit what happens when unions begin to support each other(ALPA/ IAM at EAL). GK and MVDV need to be shown that the unions will not bow down. 800 million last yr with 13% ROIC. No way.

SWA is heavily union. Every major work group is represented. Unity is key.

If you don't like your leadership, better get involved and get them out or get people that represent the majority of membership. I would hope that the leadership of SWAPA as at least listening to its members and trying to get a consensus on what's acceptable and more importantly what's realistic. The worse thing to happen is the union try to sell you a pot of gold and your NC comes back with a bag of sand.

A no growth airline TA is a lot harder to sell to its members because demographics. Senior Capts/senior FO's/junior capts/junior FO's and of course that happy CAST MD(Camp of Airtran Shut the Mother f** down) scorch the earth guys all want different stuff and needs as far as QOL stuff. Junior guys want better reserve and senior guys want retirement. All of course want more pay. Hopefully better heads will prevail and neither side get's ugly to get a TA. Something that SWA management and employees really don't need or want.

WHACKMASTER

Wait, what?! Whatever happened to all the cupcakes, rainbows and unicorns that comprise the LUV at SWA. You know......those things that were sold to us as worth giving away our seniority and seats for.

Surely there isn't turmoil in SWA land!

SlipKid

Yeah, all but the pilots!


Well, I don't like what passes for leadership, but unfortunately, they do represent the majority. The problem is that the majority, although the margin is getting slimmer by the day, are by and large apathetic kool aid swillers that will vote yes on anything put in front of them. How many other unions would put out major side letters during a stalled section 6, endorse them as (somehow) beneficial to the pilots, and reap NOTHING from them? How many other pilot groups would buy into it and vote these side letters in during section 6 negotiations?

Every election, we get a few free thinking, pilot advocates voted in, but it's never enough to swing the tide.

Oh, and I've had my hat in the ring several times both here and at ALPA carriers, and I blame my hair loss on it. This group is by far the most difficult to represent, likely by design.


See above.

Oh, like TA 1 (which led to TA 2, which became our current contract) where, and I quote the (then) president: "We got everything we wanted, and nothing we didn't". This was the first, ever, contract voted down by SWApA membership, albeit by a slim margin.


Not around here. While Gary is saying "flattish" they'll spread a rumor that as long as we vote yes (on whatever is placed in front of us), we'll see massive GROWTH! It's worked for just about every issue in the last decade and I'll bet my A fund that it'll work again.....


I've got my fingers crossed that the AT folks will see beyond their blind rage and get the big picture, and interject some reason into the average SW line pilot's perspective, but I am not holding my breath. On either count.

WHACKMASTER

"Blind rage". Hmmm, that's a great way to describe it.

REF 5

If the majority is represented within the leadership, then I think that's a good thing. Although I totally agree the longer this drags out(section 6), the more SWA management will have to deal with the consequences. People don't forget. They will vote accordingly eventually.

Ya, I did union work for years here at Airtran and at another former carrier also. Frustrating at times for sure. It's hard to rock the boat, when the boat has been running well for many years. Over here we have/had all walks of life here. Military, regional, corporate, furloughed legacy, retired legacy(mostly Delta guys who took the lump sum and retired there), freight guys, you name we have it. Unity is hard. It took over four yrs to get a strike vote here. I'm on the outside looking in but it seems with all the guys I talk to, it will be a while before moral takes a strong hit.

Actually that's a good thing. The expectation wasn't met, you voted it down and move on. Hopefully TA2 was more acceptable.

I have to give GK and the leadership credit. It's absolutely amazing that they control the narrative. The fact the money the company has made since the CBA became amendable but yet everybody just takes his word without blinking an eye. The numbers speak for themselves. The worst part is GK and MVDV go public with it and NOTHING from the union leadership publicly yet. Hopefully that changes. Can't have one side of the story and not try at least counter it.

I think you guys have a good contract. Good pay/work rules. The best scope in the industry. Your the most productive pilot group in the industry by a wide margin for the average stage lengths you do. It just seems to me that the company doesn't need anything contractually from you. They would LIKE to get something but don't need it. If they don't need it, then they shouldn't get it. Long call reserve and a B-fund would be nice but i'm pretty sure MVDV and RM have a quantitative number that has been passed across the table already, hence why the stalemate.

tsquare

Hostages? With DAL/UAL/AAL all hiring like nobody's business, and apparent stagnation on the horizon at SWA, I would think that would blow up in their faces pretty quickly.... but then again, it would be an easy way to get rid of unwanted "baggage" so that could easily be in the plans.

REF 5

Ahhh, the good old days. seemed like every week you would show up for a trip and somebody was getting fired or disciplined. Mostly senior guys but we did have a couple of FO's that like to stir things up. It just made everybody that much angrier and made the pilot group do there own "job action". Writing up airplanes left in right(especially in the Caribbean), slow taxi(made ATL controllers nuts), running all three engines ALL the time. Sick call "spikage" as management would call it after every meeting with the NC. Fatigue calls. Running the wind shield wipers with no rain. Ahh yes. That was actually fun. Then came the unicorns and rainbows of SWA. Boy, did that come and go quickly!

I think the hostage taking would be the line in the sand at SWA. If they do that they have really changed the culture forever. Hopefully they skip that chapter in the playbook.

tsquare

Herb's gone. SWA is in a different ballgame now. Gary has to count beans with a little more attention to detail because the shareholders have lots of places to put their money that will get a better return.

MaxPowers

I think something needs to be clarified here . . . . There is a BIG difference between "Maximum Safety" and intentionally damaging equipment (and violating a limitation on the 717, btw). I never saw anyone intentionally damage anything, never heard of it, and wouldn't tolerate it for a second. Hostage Taking is wrong, and damaging equipment is wrong, as well. Everyone play fair out there.

Max