CRM114

How does it feel to be 4 years late to put a guy in his place?

pilot64golfer

It showed up when I clicked the link that is highlighted because it was a "new post".

I had no idea when they typed it.

Maybe its time for a better interface for this board?

CRM114

Of course it's not your fault, here's a hug and medal, have a nice day.

pilot64golfer

I hope its a good one.

XHooker

CAL's scope was the best of the legacies. Lots of 50 seat jets, but they're inefficient and on their way out. Unlimited big props, but there's a limit to the routes you can put them on... a few hundred miles, tops. Great protections on everything else. I agree, we would have given up the 50 seat jet limitation due pressure from the rest of the industry, but scope was one of the things we had done right and characterizing today's scope as the best there is can only be done in comparison to the rest of the industry today and that's certainly debatable.

pilot64golfer

CAL was also the smallest legacy with 275 guppies and only 60 aircraft 757 and larger. So it didn't need the feed that airlines with 200 aircraft that were 757 and larger would need.

And unlimited 78 seat airplanes that have a 1,500 mile range is not what I call a great scope clause. People complain about 76 seat jets, but they are limited in number and tied to narrowbody growth which is why over 50 of the current RJ fleet is going away this year.

So comparing the scope clause of CAL to that of DAL or UAL is not an apples-to-apples comparison.

XHooker

How is that relevant? I'll say it again... The 50 seaters are inefficient in most markets in today's environment.

Those props were for markets less than a few hundred miles. If you think someone is going to sit on a prop for a 1500 mile flight, I hope you stay far away from management... though given their track record four years into this mess, it sounds like you'd fit right in. There were only a handful of Q400s being used. Our scope might be the best in the industry, but I think anyone who did an actual side by side comparison would take LCAL's scope, that's why it was the basis for the contract.

Actually, it is apples and apples. If you're saying relaxation of CAL's RJ scope was inevitable, I agree, but at a cost to the company. Also, we all get so wrapped up in scope in terms of domestic feed when that's actually just a small part of the section. In 2008 the company came to us looking for a relaxation in our international code sharing in exchange for canceling the furloughs and a small pay raise. The MEC told them to pack sand (not unanimous) with the blessing of every furlough I talked to. Ironically, in hindsight we probably should have done it because I believe it became a moot point after the merger.

Lerxst

CAL had 110 aircraft 757 and larger on MAD.

pilot64golfer

Actually it was LUAL's scope which was the basis for the contract.

The current scope is very similar to the LUAL scope with some adjustments for being a bigger airline.

Lerxst

From Section 1 Crews News, while not inclusive, highlights that foundational structures of the UPA Scope can be traced back to BOTH CAL and UAL cba's.

Scope (1-B)
Borrowing from the legacy Continental contract, Company flying is defined to include all commercial flying of
any nature “by or for” the Company or a Company affiliate.

United Express Stage length Limitation (1-C-1-b)
• 80 percent of all United Express flying operations each month will be less than 900 statute miles. This is a
new restriction/limitation with respect to both legacy contracts

Feeder Carrier Investments (1-C-1-c)
• The Company can invest in feeder UAX carriers or aircraft for UAX carriers’ use without these
operations being considered Company flying. This is essentially legacy United contract language (some
of the same principles apply to the legacy Continental CBA)

Hubs (1-C-1-d)
• Permits up to five percent of United Express block hours to operate between Company hubs. This concept
is new and addresses the fact that as a result of the merger, the number of flights operating between what
will be Company hubs is currently close to this limit. The legacy Continental CBA prohibits these flights
and the legacy United CBA requires a reasonableness test for them to be operated by Express operations.
As a comparison, Delta allows six percent of their feeder flying to operate between hubs

Connecting Operations (1-C-1-e)
• This provision requires UAX carriers as a group to schedule at least 90 percent of their flying into or out
of certain airports. This provision is designed to make certain United Express operations primarily act as
intended – as feeder operations. This provision comes from the legacy United CBA

Domestic Code Share Agreements (1-C-2)
Previously known to Continental pilots as referring to Complementary Carriers (now Domestic Code Share
Carriers), these are the same code share agreement restrictions from the legacy Continental CBA.

Hub-to-Hub Flights (1-C-2-c-(1))
• These provisions are carried over from the legacy Continental contract and operate the same way.

System Flights (1-C-2-c-(2))
• These provisions are also carried over from the legacy Continental contract, adjusted for dates and
nomenclature used in the JCBA

Foreign Air Carrier Code Share Agreements (1-C-3)
These provisions outline the allowable code share business arrangements related to international segments with
foreign carriers. There are similarities to language in the legacy Continental CBA, updated or expanded to address
how foreign carrier code share agreements have developed over the years.

Geographical Limits (1-C-3-a)
• From the legacy Continental CBA.

Flying Ratios (1-C-3-b)
1-C-3-b-(1) and 1-C-b-(2)
• The language in 1-C-3-b-(1) establishes the process used to determine a flight differential ratio that
compares international route flights operated by the Company to international flights on the same route
operated by a foreign air carrier. Provisions in 1-C-3-b-(2) outline a limitation of two flights above this
differential. This limitation is from the legacy Continental contract

Block Space (1-C-4)
• If the Company blocks a number of seats on another carrier for resale (such as for United Vacations), it is
subject to contractual Scope limitations
• Carried over but strengthened from the legacy United contract

Enforcement (1-C-5)
• Establishes a remedy process if the Company fails to satisfy contractual Scope provisions related to flight
differential, block-hour percentage or ASM ratio requirements, with corrective action required within 90
days of notification
• Principally carried over from the legacy Continental contract
• Establishes process/requirements in the event of a merger between partner carriers. Similar to legacy
Continental CBA

Successorship (1-D)
These provisions are based on the legacy Continental CBA and the current United CBA, with the following
changes to provide additional job protections for United pilots in the event of a merger.

Labor Disputes (1-F)
• Ability for pilots to refuse layovers at struck hotel facilities and/or deadhead at struck carriers
• Carried over from the legacy United CBA

Review Committee (1-J)
• Provides ALPA access to all information (including revenue share agreements, marketing agreements,
Express agreements, etc.) for monitoring Company compliance with the provisions of the JCBA Scope
section
• Carried over from the legacy United contract

Remedies (1-K)
• Expedited arbitration for Scope section grievances. Hearing 30 days after submission of grievance and
System Board ruling within a 30 days of close of hearing
• If the Company is found to have violated Scope provision, System Board will direct the Company to
comply with the JCBA and will fashion an appropriate remedy for the harm caused by the Company’s
failure to comply with the Scope provisions
• These are strengthened provisions as compared to both legacy contracts

Can't we all just get alooonngggg??