UAL/CAL Master Chairmen statements
03-24-2012, 11:28 AM
#1
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UAL/CAL Master Chairmen statements
March 24, 2012
Dear Fellow Pilots,
Despite being 82 days beyond any supposed inflection point, negotiations for a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA) continue at an unacceptable pace. The Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) and management have been discussing, problem solving, costing, more discussing, more costing, more discussing, meeting in large groups, meeting in small groups, meeting in even smaller groups, all while trying to encourage a change in the tempo of negotiations.
Here is a summary of the last few weeks of negotiations between management and the JNC:
• Executive management committed to me, and additionally to some members of the United MEC, that they would have the decision makers with the authority and trust to “bind the company” at the negotiations. Those committed decision makers spent a total of three days at JCBA negotiations this year.
• At a recent session, one of the management negotiators stated, “I don’t see what the rush is.”
Management negotiators committed to the JNC, before the mediator, that they would work through at least one of two weekends in March in an effort to close as many scheduling issues as possible so as to move onto other sections of the JCBA. Management negotiators did not stay through any weekend.
While there are reports of some recent incremental movement in scheduling, in context we have been negotiating scheduling and work rules since February 2011. This can be compared to starving to death in a debtor’s prison then being passed a stale slice of bread. To the company, the bankruptcy is a long forgotten issue. To our pilots, the bankruptcy era of United and Continental continues to affect us and our families. The company is enjoying the benefits of the merger and looking toward the future while the pilots continue to live in the past with bankruptcy wages and work rules.
Management has made further commitments toward negotiations in Chicago for the next several weeks. We will be carefully assessing to see if they continue to give us only slices of bread or will instead provide sufficient food to feed our families.
We are United,
Captain Jay Heppner
Chairman, United Master Executive Council
March 12, 2012
Continental Union Head Sees Progress
By SUSAN CAREY
Now that United Continental Holdings Inc. has gotten past its complex reservation-system migration, the merged company's "plate is clear, and there's nothing left to focus on besides" reaching joint labor agreements with unionized employees of the two subsidiaries, said Capt. Jay Pierce, chairman of the pilot leadership council at the Air Line Pilots Association branch at Continental.
In an interview Monday, Mr. Pierce said the prolonged talks between the two pilot groups and the company have picked up pace since a newly elected leader, Capt. James "Jay" Heppner, took office at the ALPA branch at United at the start of 2012. "Negotiations are going very well," Mr. Pierce said. "We've made more progress so far in 2012 than we did in the last six months of 2011."
"We're making progress," Mr. Pierce said. "I'm pleased we have momentum. Our pilots are very frustrated." Both groups are working under concessionary contracts dating back to times of industry duress and, in United's case, bankruptcy.
Mr. Pierce said that negotiations haven't yet focused on the most important issues: wages, retirement and "scope," the contract rules that govern how much outsourcing of pilot jobs United Continental can achieve through contracts with regional airline affiliates and code-sharing with other carriers. But he said he "would love to be working under a new contract by the first quarter of 2013."
Write to Susan Carey at [email protected]
Dear Fellow Pilots,
Despite being 82 days beyond any supposed inflection point, negotiations for a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA) continue at an unacceptable pace. The Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) and management have been discussing, problem solving, costing, more discussing, more costing, more discussing, meeting in large groups, meeting in small groups, meeting in even smaller groups, all while trying to encourage a change in the tempo of negotiations.
Here is a summary of the last few weeks of negotiations between management and the JNC:
• Executive management committed to me, and additionally to some members of the United MEC, that they would have the decision makers with the authority and trust to “bind the company” at the negotiations. Those committed decision makers spent a total of three days at JCBA negotiations this year.
• At a recent session, one of the management negotiators stated, “I don’t see what the rush is.”
Management negotiators committed to the JNC, before the mediator, that they would work through at least one of two weekends in March in an effort to close as many scheduling issues as possible so as to move onto other sections of the JCBA. Management negotiators did not stay through any weekend.
While there are reports of some recent incremental movement in scheduling, in context we have been negotiating scheduling and work rules since February 2011. This can be compared to starving to death in a debtor’s prison then being passed a stale slice of bread. To the company, the bankruptcy is a long forgotten issue. To our pilots, the bankruptcy era of United and Continental continues to affect us and our families. The company is enjoying the benefits of the merger and looking toward the future while the pilots continue to live in the past with bankruptcy wages and work rules.
Management has made further commitments toward negotiations in Chicago for the next several weeks. We will be carefully assessing to see if they continue to give us only slices of bread or will instead provide sufficient food to feed our families.
We are United,
Captain Jay Heppner
Chairman, United Master Executive Council
March 12, 2012
Continental Union Head Sees Progress
By SUSAN CAREY
Now that United Continental Holdings Inc. has gotten past its complex reservation-system migration, the merged company's "plate is clear, and there's nothing left to focus on besides" reaching joint labor agreements with unionized employees of the two subsidiaries, said Capt. Jay Pierce, chairman of the pilot leadership council at the Air Line Pilots Association branch at Continental.
In an interview Monday, Mr. Pierce said the prolonged talks between the two pilot groups and the company have picked up pace since a newly elected leader, Capt. James "Jay" Heppner, took office at the ALPA branch at United at the start of 2012. "Negotiations are going very well," Mr. Pierce said. "We've made more progress so far in 2012 than we did in the last six months of 2011."
"We're making progress," Mr. Pierce said. "I'm pleased we have momentum. Our pilots are very frustrated." Both groups are working under concessionary contracts dating back to times of industry duress and, in United's case, bankruptcy.
Mr. Pierce said that negotiations haven't yet focused on the most important issues: wages, retirement and "scope," the contract rules that govern how much outsourcing of pilot jobs United Continental can achieve through contracts with regional airline affiliates and code-sharing with other carriers. But he said he "would love to be working under a new contract by the first quarter of 2013."
Write to Susan Carey at [email protected]
03-24-2012, 12:16 PM
#2
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Yea, makes you wonder if they both were staring at a painting what each one would say about it. Obviously, these two updates say an awful lot about our current reality. What really matters is when/if they ever do bring us an agreement.... will the group as a collective whole measure it for what they need and vote accordingly or will the Hunger Games bring us to a point where "just enough" wins the day.
One can only hope...
Increased momentum to nowhere fast...
One can only hope...
Increased momentum to nowhere fast...
03-24-2012, 12:33 PM
#3
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Position: B777 CA - SFO
Posts: 728
.... And here is what the JNC had to say inbetween these two MC updates.
From the MEC Update dated March 16:
Joint Negotiating Committee Update
This week, your JNC continued to meet with management in Baltimore under the supervision of the NMB mediator. Negotiations centered on the JCBA scheduling sections (Sections 5, 20 and 22). Using the mediator’s suggested small group format for these negotiation sessions has generated more progress than we have seen in the past. Progress continues to be made in reducing the number of open scheduling items. While our stated goal during the last three weeks in Baltimore was to close all of the issues remaining in scheduling prior to our departure, we have a number of topics that must be addressed.
Given the fact that our progress has been significant, the JNC and management will continue this process when we resume negotiations in Chicago the week of March 26 in an effort to close the remaining issues. Additionally, when discussing the interaction of sick leave with scheduling issues, we were able to solve the remaining open issues in Section 13 – Sick Leave and have now achieved an agreement in principle (AIP) on this section.
So which MC is being the Debbie Downer here? It appears as if the JNC and UA MC are the ones looking at different paintings.
From the MEC Update dated March 16:
Joint Negotiating Committee Update
This week, your JNC continued to meet with management in Baltimore under the supervision of the NMB mediator. Negotiations centered on the JCBA scheduling sections (Sections 5, 20 and 22). Using the mediator’s suggested small group format for these negotiation sessions has generated more progress than we have seen in the past. Progress continues to be made in reducing the number of open scheduling items. While our stated goal during the last three weeks in Baltimore was to close all of the issues remaining in scheduling prior to our departure, we have a number of topics that must be addressed.
Given the fact that our progress has been significant, the JNC and management will continue this process when we resume negotiations in Chicago the week of March 26 in an effort to close the remaining issues. Additionally, when discussing the interaction of sick leave with scheduling issues, we were able to solve the remaining open issues in Section 13 – Sick Leave and have now achieved an agreement in principle (AIP) on this section.
So which MC is being the Debbie Downer here? It appears as if the JNC and UA MC are the ones looking at different paintings.
03-24-2012, 01:22 PM
#4
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We've got three statements from two individuals (one through an interview) and the primary negotiating participant, the JNC, all addressing the same issue, all within 12 days of each other.
I would probably toss the odd one. Two out of three carries a bit more weight.
I would probably toss the odd one. Two out of three carries a bit more weight.
03-25-2012, 08:04 AM
#6
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Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
Originally Posted by Lerxst
.... And here is what the JNC had to say inbetween these two MC updates.
From the MEC Update dated March 16:
Joint Negotiating Committee Update
This week, your JNC continued to meet with management in Baltimore under the supervision of the NMB mediator. Negotiations centered on the JCBA scheduling sections (Sections 5, 20 and 22). Using the mediator’s suggested small group format for these negotiation sessions has generated more progress than we have seen in the past. Progress continues to be made in reducing the number of open scheduling items. While our stated goal during the last three weeks in Baltimore was to close all of the issues remaining in scheduling prior to our departure, we have a number of topics that must be addressed.
Given the fact that our progress has been significant, the JNC and management will continue this process when we resume negotiations in Chicago the week of March 26 in an effort to close the remaining issues. Additionally, when discussing the interaction of sick leave with scheduling issues, we were able to solve the remaining open issues in Section 13 – Sick Leave and have now achieved an agreement in principle (AIP) on this section.
So which MC is being the Debbie Downer here? It appears as if the JNC and UA MC are the ones looking at different paintings.
From the MEC Update dated March 16:
Joint Negotiating Committee Update
This week, your JNC continued to meet with management in Baltimore under the supervision of the NMB mediator. Negotiations centered on the JCBA scheduling sections (Sections 5, 20 and 22). Using the mediator’s suggested small group format for these negotiation sessions has generated more progress than we have seen in the past. Progress continues to be made in reducing the number of open scheduling items. While our stated goal during the last three weeks in Baltimore was to close all of the issues remaining in scheduling prior to our departure, we have a number of topics that must be addressed.
Given the fact that our progress has been significant, the JNC and management will continue this process when we resume negotiations in Chicago the week of March 26 in an effort to close the remaining issues. Additionally, when discussing the interaction of sick leave with scheduling issues, we were able to solve the remaining open issues in Section 13 – Sick Leave and have now achieved an agreement in principle (AIP) on this section.
So which MC is being the Debbie Downer here? It appears as if the JNC and UA MC are the ones looking at different paintings.
03-25-2012, 09:06 AM
#7
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Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: B777 CA - SFO
Posts: 728
Lighten up Francis, I was pointing out the disconnect between the JNC's (you know, the people actually in the room) update on March 16th and your MC's update not a week later. Nowhere did I comment about how I feel about the pace, just highlighting the utter disparity in message content and tone coming from sUA sources over a very brief period of time. That is disconcerting. I agree with everything you said, and I am absolutely concerned about the pace. I am, however, alarmed that conflicting messages about said negotiations are being sent out.
Is it the JNC'S "our progress has been significant" (3/16), or Heppner's "....continue at an unacceptable pace"(3/22) that we are to believe?
Being that the MC is a de facto member of the NC, I would hope for more consistent message discipline to rally the troops behind. We are not talking about a 6 month window here between the 2 disparate updates, but rather a week. They need to get their story straight before we can all start rowing together in the right direction.
Is it the JNC'S "our progress has been significant" (3/16), or Heppner's "....continue at an unacceptable pace"(3/22) that we are to believe?
Being that the MC is a de facto member of the NC, I would hope for more consistent message discipline to rally the troops behind. We are not talking about a 6 month window here between the 2 disparate updates, but rather a week. They need to get their story straight before we can all start rowing together in the right direction.
03-25-2012, 09:28 AM
#8
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
Originally Posted by Lerxst
Lighten up Francis, I was pointing out the disconnect between the JNC's (you know, the people actually in the room) update on March 16th and your MC's update not a week later. Nowhere did I comment about how I feel about the pace, just highlighting the utter disparity in message content and tone coming from sUA sources over a very brief period of time. That is disconcerting. I agree with everything you said, and I am absolutely concerned about the pace. I am, however, alarmed that conflicting messages about said negotiations are being sent out.
Is it the JNC'S "our progress has been significant" (3/16), or Heppner's "....continue at an unacceptable pace"(3/22) that we are to believe?
Being that the MC is a de facto member of the NC, I would hope for more consistent message discipline to rally the troops behind. We are not talking about a 6 month window here between the 2 disparate updates, but rather a week. They need to get their story straight before we can all start rowing together in the right direction.
Is it the JNC'S "our progress has been significant" (3/16), or Heppner's "....continue at an unacceptable pace"(3/22) that we are to believe?
Being that the MC is a de facto member of the NC, I would hope for more consistent message discipline to rally the troops behind. We are not talking about a 6 month window here between the 2 disparate updates, but rather a week. They need to get their story straight before we can all start rowing together in the right direction.
I'll lighten up as soon as we have a JCBA. You call the guy who is calling out the process for being unreasonably slow a "Debbie Downer". Your MC just got excited over having a contract in another YEAR. That is utter crud. When management wants concessions they rewrite the whole contract in WEEKS.
You want our side to get the message straight?? Your MC just publicly called out the UAL MEC for filing a grievance against the company, saying it distracted from the JCBA. This is the same MC who weeks before was doing nothing but negotiating side deals and settling grievances outside of negotiations.
As far as I'm concerned the pace is ridiculous. Anyone who says so at the MEC level is who I'm agreeing with. I guess that makes me another of your "Debbie Downers". As they say in the Right Stuff, "Alright I'm cooler than you, now fix your little problems and LIGHT THIS CANDLE!"
03-25-2012, 09:44 AM
#9
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Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: B777 CA - SFO
Posts: 728
Lessee, our MC said exactly what the "J"NC said... J as in joint, you might call Phil Otis to clarify his message 'cause your MC is the only one dancing to a different tune. That is the problem, not what he said.
Again, nowhere did I say anything about being happy with the process. I agree with everything you say regarding the lack of tangible results.
I am not the only one concerned with the conflicting communications, here are 2 sUA guy's thoughts from another forum that echo my own:
"I must have been at a different council meeting this week. Was not one of the reasons to deny the LEC officers access to the contract proposals being passed back and forth was because the negotiating committee was making great progress the past three weeks and Jay did not want the committee to be distracted?"
From the MEC Update dated March 16:
Joint Negotiating Committee Update
This week, your JNC continued to meet with management in Baltimore under the supervision of the NMB mediator. Negotiations centered on the JCBA scheduling sections (Sections 5, 20 and 22). Using the mediator’s suggested small group format for these negotiation sessions has generated more progress than we have seen in the past. Progress continues to be made in reducing the number of open scheduling items. While our stated goal during the last three weeks in Baltimore was to close all of the issues remaining in scheduling prior to our departure, we have a number of topics that must be addressed.
Given the fact that our progress has been significant, the JNC and management will continue this process when we resume negotiations in Chicago the week of March 26 in an effort to close the remaining issues. Additionally, when discussing the interaction of sick leave with scheduling issues, we were able to solve the remaining open issues in Section 13 – Sick Leave and have now achieved an agreement in principle (AIP) on this section.
And
"I don't get it, did Heppner just sort of wake up Saturday morning and decide to pen a letter to 7000 pilots? J*****, as you rightly point out the obvious disconnect between communications COMING FROM THE SAME SOURCE! *** is going on here? Is any body minding the communications store? Do the MC and his Comm guy even talk to each other? Don't they see how schizophrenic their communications look to the line pilot?"
Nowhere is anybody (me included) complaining about the content of Heppner's missive as a stand alone issue, but rather the confusing and conflicting messages emanating from both the and the JNC over a brief period of time.
Everything else you wrote about the actual process is spot on, and is what every guy at Cal I talk to is feeling.
We just need our leaders to start moving us all in the right direction.
Again, nowhere did I say anything about being happy with the process. I agree with everything you say regarding the lack of tangible results.
I am not the only one concerned with the conflicting communications, here are 2 sUA guy's thoughts from another forum that echo my own:
"I must have been at a different council meeting this week. Was not one of the reasons to deny the LEC officers access to the contract proposals being passed back and forth was because the negotiating committee was making great progress the past three weeks and Jay did not want the committee to be distracted?"
From the MEC Update dated March 16:
Joint Negotiating Committee Update
This week, your JNC continued to meet with management in Baltimore under the supervision of the NMB mediator. Negotiations centered on the JCBA scheduling sections (Sections 5, 20 and 22). Using the mediator’s suggested small group format for these negotiation sessions has generated more progress than we have seen in the past. Progress continues to be made in reducing the number of open scheduling items. While our stated goal during the last three weeks in Baltimore was to close all of the issues remaining in scheduling prior to our departure, we have a number of topics that must be addressed.
Given the fact that our progress has been significant, the JNC and management will continue this process when we resume negotiations in Chicago the week of March 26 in an effort to close the remaining issues. Additionally, when discussing the interaction of sick leave with scheduling issues, we were able to solve the remaining open issues in Section 13 – Sick Leave and have now achieved an agreement in principle (AIP) on this section.
And
"I don't get it, did Heppner just sort of wake up Saturday morning and decide to pen a letter to 7000 pilots? J*****, as you rightly point out the obvious disconnect between communications COMING FROM THE SAME SOURCE! *** is going on here? Is any body minding the communications store? Do the MC and his Comm guy even talk to each other? Don't they see how schizophrenic their communications look to the line pilot?"
Nowhere is anybody (me included) complaining about the content of Heppner's missive as a stand alone issue, but rather the confusing and conflicting messages emanating from both the and the JNC over a brief period of time.
Everything else you wrote about the actual process is spot on, and is what every guy at Cal I talk to is feeling.
We just need our leaders to start moving us all in the right direction.
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