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LOA 25 Paragraph 4

Old 11-30-2012, 10:02 AM
  #111  
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Fellas-

The ship has sailed, if this TA is voted down their is no,and I mean no possible way the other two parties at the table will remove the ill-effects of LOA 25. It ain't happening, this is the best they could do, get over it. Getting upset and emotional isn't going to force the CAL MEC or UAL mgmt to change their position, not without giving something up.

So vote yes, let it pass, see IF it does have a negative affect SLI and then sue the pants off ALPA.

As far as having 8 or 9 year pay versus 12, guess what, in 3-4 years you'll be at year 12. It is not that much of a pay difference.

Pick your battles. I've already carried enough emotional baggage from this place since 99, I'm willing to let this one go and see what happens.

KC
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:05 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by kc135driver View Post
Fellas-

The ship has sailed, if this TA is voted down their is no,and I mean no possible way the other two parties at the table will remove the ill-effects of LOA 25. It ain't happening, this is the best they could do, get over it. Getting upset and emotional isn't going to force the CAL MEC or UAL mgmt to change their position, not without giving something up.

So vote yes, let it pass, see IF it does have a negative affect SLI and then sue the pants off ALPA.

As far as having 8 or 9 year pay versus 12, guess what, in 3-4 years you'll be at year 12. It is not that much of a pay difference.

Pick your battles. I've already carried enough emotional baggage from this place since 99, I'm willing to let this one go and see what happens.

KC
Well said, KC. I'm truly deeply saddened to see what has happened to your particular group of pilots.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:11 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by kc135driver View Post
Fellas-

The ship has sailed, if this TA is voted down their is no,and I mean no possible way the other two parties at the table will remove the ill-effects of LOA 25. It ain't happening, this is the best they could do, get over it. Getting upset and emotional isn't going to force the CAL MEC or UAL mgmt to change their position, not without giving something up.

So vote yes, let it pass, see IF it does have a negative affect SLI and then sue the pants off ALPA.

As far as having 8 or 9 year pay versus 12, guess what, in 3-4 years you'll be at year 12. It is not that much of a pay difference.

Pick your battles. I've already carried enough emotional baggage from this place since 99, I'm willing to let this one go and see what happens.

KC
No disrespect to your opinion, KC, but I put this battle on the list I'm willing to fall on my sword for. If not this than what?
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:25 AM
  #114  
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Fred-

Thanks. I respect your opinion as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy either, I just think the fight is premature and nothing will be won with a No vote. Let the damages occur, then sue.

All of the angst in the world, even if justified, is easily squandered.

KC
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:25 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by Freddriver5 View Post
No disrespect to your opinion, KC, but I put this battle on the list I'm willing to fall on my sword for. If not this than what?
Why fall on your sword when you could just win instead?
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:59 AM
  #116  
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I was hired in '08 and furloughed almost a year later. So basically, it is my understanding that unless we took a position at CAL, all of us are once again screwed on this deal with not getting any longevity while on furlough. Is this correct? So if we had a somewhat decent job and didn't jump on the first opportunity presented to pack up the family and move to Guam on crap pay, that we now are excluded from any benefit of this TA. Wow! Always amazes me how the junior guys get thrown under the bus so quick.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:11 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by sonic340 View Post
I was hired in '08 and furloughed almost a year later. So basically, it is my understanding that unless we took a position at CAL, all of us are once again screwed on this deal with not getting any longevity while on furlough. Is this correct? So if we had a somewhat decent job and didn't jump on the first opportunity presented to pack up the family and move to Guam on crap pay, that we now are excluded from any benefit of this TA. Wow! Always amazes me how the junior guys get thrown under the bus so quick.
Sonic,

I don't think your interpretation is correct. Even if you passed on the CAL job, I'm pretty sure you will be at 4.7 years longevity when you decide to come back. Again...I THINK...once a TA is ratified and the SLI is done, you will no longer be considered an involuntary furlough. That is the part thats a little fuzzy in my mind. I don't think there is any situation in which you would come back to first or second year pay if the TA passes.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:17 PM
  #118  
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sonic,
Your one and only post, (above), is incorrect since you ask.
1-you as an 08 hire will get full or very near full furlough credit (read LOA 25 para4 ten more times and then do the math)
2-your implied assumption that pilots were involuntarily/solely given Guam as their only choice is false
3-that you are excluded from any benefit from this TA is also false

It also amazes me how the junior guys get thrown under the bus.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:30 PM
  #119  
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Well my apologies on not understanding LOA 25 par4, and very much appreciate any clarifications. I've been trying to get up to speed on this whole TA and it makes it a little more difficult to get a good grasp on things when I've been out of the loop for some time.
The recall offer I received this summer made note that they were filling classes for mainly Guam and Houston bases, so that's what I was basing that statement on.
There seems to be a great deal of confusion and misinterpretation on this TA in general from what I've read. Maybe it's just me.....But I do appreciate any input on this issue. Thanks
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:01 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by sonic340 View Post
Well my apologies on not understanding LOA 25 par4, and very much appreciate any clarifications. I've been trying to get up to speed on this whole TA and it makes it a little more difficult to get a good grasp on things when I've been out of the loop for some time.
The recall offer I received this summer made note that they were filling classes for mainly Guam and Houston bases, so that's what I was basing that statement on.
There seems to be a great deal of confusion and misinterpretation on this TA in general from what I've read. Maybe it's just me.....But I do appreciate any input on this issue. Thanks
Sonic,

If you do want to come back, I would do it sooner rather than later. Since you are junior, and Cal is now hiring off the street to the tune of 50 a month, there will probably be less vacancies off the first vacancy bid next summer ( if the TA passes). The more they hire off the street, the longer it will take to get all of us back on property.. Through growth and retirements. If the TA gets voted down, it will be even longer.

If you are on the property, the vacancy bid will be your "recall" to either in place or to whatever you can hold (above the new hires) which is most likely not Guam. Our class was half Houston and half Newark, and some have already shifted to Ord or Lax.

Good luck.

Admiral
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