jsled

Just because you keep saying it, doesn't make it true....

From the MEC Update Nov 20:


Scenario 3: Twice-furloughed pilot now working at CAL. Three years UAL, then another two years UAL, and 1.5 years at CAL.



At Date of Signing, the pilot will be adjusted to 4 years 7 months of longevity for pay purposes at CAL. This longevity will be improved after SLI by combining his UAL and CAL longevity. Additionally, for pay it may be improved by the SLI process as described in Scenario 2 above. This UAL furloughee working at CAL is considered a “CAL pilot” but is pay protected at his UAL pay rate. That pilot will see a potential increase in pay longevity to 5th year TA rates if the new rate is higher than the previous protected rate. After the completion of the ISL a second adjustment of his pay longevity will be computed to account for his time on furlough. This added pay longevity will be capped so as to not exceed the longevity of the CAL pilot just senior to him on the ISL. This pilot will NOT lose any longevity and can only improve upon his 6.5 years of longevity for pay. After ISL this pilot’s full earned longevity (CAL plus UAL) will apply.

1. An L-UAL pilot may only GAIN longevity for pay from the TA-mandated process. He will never lose pilot longevity which he has already attained through work for L-UAL and/or L-CAL.

I don't know how much more clear I can make it. YOU WILL NOT LOSE LONGEVITEY. PERIOD. Why do you keep on saying it?

Coto Pilot

Direct, you are incorrect about the purpose of LOA 25. It is titled "Pay longevity credit for furloughees", not "Furlough longevity credit for furloughees".

mossimo

"Pilots please I hear a fatal error going on here in this conversation.

Longevity and ISL are not the same thing."


Agreed! The snapshot date is most likely going to be the Merger Announcement Date, MAD. See the NWA/DAL merger among other for precedent. sUAL pilots will argue for earlier and sCAL will argue for later but most likely MAD is the final date for SLI purposes.

Our positions and longevity will be set in stone as of the MAD. Longevity for pay is a contractual item and designed to be set apart from SLI by the current ALPA merger policy.

Stop mixing the two!

Coto Pilot

I am not sure who you think is mixing them up. We are talking about a letter of agreement which is a part of the contract that determines our pay. Part of the LOA is dependent upon the outcome of the SLI.

mossimo

I was speaking about our P2P reps who are claiming that LOA25 can only help us in the SLI, when nothing could be further from the truth. LOA25 relates to pay, and as you said, our final longevity for pay is related to where we fall on the final merged list.

I just find it disingenous that LOA25 is being put forth as a win for sUAL pilots. Without LOA25, all furloughees would have longevity credit for pay purposes, a win win in my book.

DirectLawOnly

This is a false statement. This is the entire purpose in breaking my silence.

If I could change 3-B-3 to say: All pilots on the system seniority list shall continue to accrue longevity when on furlough, then I would. That would be the cleanest solution to the problem before us.

But it doesn't and because it doesn't, it only applies to future furloughs.
I think a lot a pilots are under the impression that if LOA 25, paragraph 4 goes away that they get what they want. It is just the opposite. They forfeit the protections contained in LOA 25 absent any specific language to the contrary.

I don't want guys hanging their hat on something that isn't there.

mossimo

DirectLawOnly,

Please provide the reference that 3-b-3 applies only to future furloughees. Every reference I find show that it applies to all EXCEPT the sUAL carveout.


3-B-1 A Pilot’s longevity shall begin to accrue on the date he is hired as a Pilot and shall continue to accrue except as otherwise provided for in this Agreement.

3-B-3 A Pilot shall continue to accrue longevity when on furlough.

10. 3-B-3 : Longevity During Furlough Implemented with the second full Bid Period after effective date


7-F Seniority
A Pilot shall maintain his relative position on the Seniority List for all time on furlough and recall
bypass provided that the continuous period of furlough and recall bypass shall not exceed ten
(10) years. Once such a continuous period exceeds ten (10) years, a Pilot shall forfeit all recall
rights and his name shall be removed from the Seniority List. Pilots shall receive longevity credit
for all time spent on furlough.

Regularguy

This is a false statement:

"our final longevity for pay is related to where we fall on the final merged list."

Pay is based on longevity and position held (airplane and seat). The only thing your relative position on the ISL has to do with pay is the pilot's ability to bid for equipment, seat and schedule, these thing are ISL related. Longevity determines what year pay scale you will receive for the airplane and seat your seniority can bid.

Please compare apples to apples.

mossimo

Have you read LOA25 Regularguy?

When an Integrated Seniority List is presented to the Company that satisfies the terms of Section 5 of the Transition and Process Agreement (“TPA”), pilots who are or previously were furloughed shall receive additional pay longevity credit for all time spent on furlough provided that they have additional time on furlough which was not credited for pay longevity purposes upon date
of signing, and provided further that the application of such additional credit does not result in any s-United pilot having a pay longevity date that is earlier than the pay longevity date of the next most senior s-Continental pilot. For purposes of the application of the calculations required by the preceding sentence only, a hypothetical unadjusted pay longevity date for s-Continental pilots shall be used. The hypothetical unadjusted pay longevity date will be established by removing pay longevity reductions resulting from to time spent on leaves of absence.

mossimo

What's funny Regularguy is I quoted your post originally and was agreeing with you, but you somehow think I am confused? DirectLawOnly is trying to claim that somehow LOA25 HELPS our SLI argument. I say again, its apples to oranges.