Interview Calls & Hiring Predictions
09-20-2014, 12:27 PM
#551
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Heavies
Posts: 1,414
Originally Posted by Lambourne
When given the choice of a non-MIL qualified pilot and a MIL pilot that will be taking Christmas, Thanksgiving, 4th of July etc off for the rest of their career for "duty" it makes the decision easier. This is a bottom line business and the added cost is surely baked into the pie. In addition to the fact there are so many qualified regional pilots that have experience in airline flying could be a big reason there might not be as many MIL pilots getting called as before.
Case in point: My Reserve squadron had a NWA pilot who would tell the Company he had duty over Christmas. They actually called the unit to see if he was actually there. He wasn't. He got fired from NWA and the Reserve Squadron.
A lot of CONUS based logistics squadrons pull way back during the holidays (unless there's something going on). Generally speaking, we didn't give active duty or drills over the holidays if we didn't need the guys. We always tried to save the money for when we would actually need them.
Usually, the only person on station during the holidays was the SDO and that was usually an active duty officer with a skeleton enlisted crew.
09-20-2014, 12:39 PM
#552
Moderate Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
Flying Demographics
In my new-hire/re-doc class, about 1/3 of newbies were mil. Rest RJs.
44% heavy; 55% fighter.
Median age: I'd guess 34. Most of them weren't more than +/- 2 years of that, in my estimate.
I doubt any of the mil types had much more than 2000 total.
Oldest was mid 40s; maybe pushing 50. Just one.
So, mil fighter isn't a show-stopper, nor is being a mil retiree (or old enough to be one). All of the mil types were still in the Guard or Reserve except one. The RJ guys had tons of time; I think that is adjusted for the mil guys, but they are definitely favoring RJs over mil by 2:1.
They have always said "We hire Captains," meaning someone who will eventually make Captain. I think therein lies the cutoff in the 40s, and the desired range is mid-30s: young enough to become a Capt; old enough to know (more or less) what he's doing.
44% heavy; 55% fighter.
Median age: I'd guess 34. Most of them weren't more than +/- 2 years of that, in my estimate.
I doubt any of the mil types had much more than 2000 total.
Oldest was mid 40s; maybe pushing 50. Just one.
So, mil fighter isn't a show-stopper, nor is being a mil retiree (or old enough to be one). All of the mil types were still in the Guard or Reserve except one. The RJ guys had tons of time; I think that is adjusted for the mil guys, but they are definitely favoring RJs over mil by 2:1.
They have always said "We hire Captains," meaning someone who will eventually make Captain. I think therein lies the cutoff in the 40s, and the desired range is mid-30s: young enough to become a Capt; old enough to know (more or less) what he's doing.
09-20-2014, 12:43 PM
#553
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Heavies
Posts: 1,414
In my new-hire/re-doc class, about 1/3 of newbies were mil. Rest RJs.
44% heavy; 55% fighter.
Median age: I'd guess 34. Most of them weren't more than +/- 2 years of that, in my estimate.
I doubt any of the mil types had much more than 2000 total.
Oldest was mid 40s; maybe pushing 50. Just one.
So, mil fighter isn't a show-stopper, nor is being a mil retiree (or old enough to be one). All of the mil types were still in the Guard or Reserve except one. The RJ guys had tons of time; I think that is adjusted for the mil guys, but they are definitely favoring RJs over mil by 2:1.
They have always said "We hire Captains," meaning someone who will eventually make Captain. I think therein lies the cutoff in the 40s, and the desired range is mid-30s: young enough to become a Capt; old enough to know (more or less) what he's doing.
44% heavy; 55% fighter.
Median age: I'd guess 34. Most of them weren't more than +/- 2 years of that, in my estimate.
I doubt any of the mil types had much more than 2000 total.
Oldest was mid 40s; maybe pushing 50. Just one.
So, mil fighter isn't a show-stopper, nor is being a mil retiree (or old enough to be one). All of the mil types were still in the Guard or Reserve except one. The RJ guys had tons of time; I think that is adjusted for the mil guys, but they are definitely favoring RJs over mil by 2:1.
They have always said "We hire Captains," meaning someone who will eventually make Captain. I think therein lies the cutoff in the 40s, and the desired range is mid-30s: young enough to become a Capt; old enough to know (more or less) what he's doing.
Disregard
09-20-2014, 03:24 PM
#554
You scratched my anchor
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,876
Originally Posted by worstpilotever
Are we reaching the bottom of the barrel already? Note to interviewees: DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES wear anything but a suit and tie to the interview.
09-20-2014, 03:50 PM
#555
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 303
Originally Posted by Lambourne
One issue affecting guard/reserve hiring could be the recent litigation that UAL went through with MIL leave pilots. There is a significant added cost to have MIL leave pilots on the books (PDAP while on leave is a big one) When given the choice of a non-MIL qualified pilot and a MIL pilot that will be taking Christmas, Thanksgiving, 4th of July etc off for the rest of their career for "duty" it makes the decision easier. This is a bottom line business and the added cost is surely baked into the pie. In addition to the fact there are so many qualified regional pilots that have experience in airline flying could be a big reason there might not be as many MIL pilots getting called as before.
I'm a 2006 hire (previous l-CAL). All military background…all fighter time besides a stint as an IFF IP for a couple of years…current F-16 IP ANG.
Here's the rub in my opinion. Airline flying is airline flying…i.e. how well can you "manage" systems and know the systems and limitations. There's the skill part (10%) and the other 90% of the job. The actual hand flying itself is negligible once you reach that level because; one, it's assumed if you do reach the "major" level you should be able to fly a heavy type jet and two, the airlines rely heavily on automation to the point that hand flying only equates to about 10-15 minutes on any given flight…mainly the takeoff and landing. The 10% is where stick and rudder skills do play a part - landing in a strong crosswind, having some kind of non-normal and keeping your cool, shooting a gusty ILS down to CAT I mins, etc…
Speaking of the non-normal part - this is where I believe military, and even more so fighter pilots, have a very strong case. All mil guys are produced from the same level of standards when they go through UPT - and the airlines know this level of product. The USAF and USN stress keeping your cool throughout multiple "non-normal" situations, and I believe this does effect a mil guy's ability to deal with stressful situations. I can say without a doubt that dealing with a non-normal with a student on the wing down at 500 ft and 500 kts, or doing well in a challenging 4 v X scenario leading the 4 ship is much more brain intensive or "stick and rudder" intensive than flying a heavy straight and level from from EWR to LAX.
Before you curse me out, please read my third paragraph…THERE ARE challenges in airline flying. And I think a military background deals with those challenges very well…worth the price of a few drills and mil leaves here and there…and the airlines are aware of that. So they will…and definitely should…continue to hire active guard/reserve pilots. And please don't think that civilian guys are inferior by any means…my response is a rebuttal to the sophomoric post above only.
09-20-2014, 04:24 PM
#556
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,660
Sigh............an uptick in hiring ALWAYS equates to an uptick is the mil vs. civ d1ck measuring contest.
Agree with that. However, the "dark decade" has produced, well, just that. A decade + of civ pilots (doesn't matter RJ, LCC, ACMI, whatever) that have more than likely dealt with "keep your cool" situations. An emergency (or two, or three). Multiple training events, etc. They ALSO dealt with crappy/hostile managements, crappy dispatchers and schedulers and having to do TONS of logistical support themselves, whatever. Jesus, some companies, EVERY day is a "non normal" day. Whether it's the constant schedule changes, constant MX issues, displacements, furloughs, etc.
Also, keep this in mind, especially with regards to your core points. For RIGHT HERE, and RIGHT NOW, if the points you mentioned were truly what the airlines wanted 100% of time, you wouldn't see a SINGLE civ/RJ pilot with NO TPIC getting hired. Because AGAIN, for RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW, there's still a TON of very experienced well rounded civ pilots that are ALSO very qualified, TPIC/LCA/CP, whatever. As well as do things like go and drive old ladies around on their days off.
Now in that SAME regard, you ALSO wouldn't see a single guard/reserve pilot (non tactical/single seat) that has been through training, and has a civ job on the side to build his total yet has NO PIC/AC being hired EITHER. Yeah, they may have 4-500 hours of mil training and flight time (the BEST KIND OF TIME TO HAVE, NO ARGUMENT) but they don't have any AC time, no IP/EP time. IOW, much of the experience you pointed out that makes a mil pilot valuable. It circles BACK around, reading these boards and others, combined with A LOT of guys I know. For RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW, there's a A LOT of mil pilots, with A LOT of boxes checked (IP/EP/NATOPS/Masters/High GPA's) that are STILL waiting on a call.
Same applies if you respond to my post.
BOTH demographics bring qualities to the table. And the airlines recognize BOTH those demographics qualities and seek them. As much pain/discomfort is may cause people to read, sorry, NOBODY's d1ck is bigger.
And in regards to the guys that exploit orders, it's just like EVERYTHING else. A very small percentage of people can screw it up for the majority of people. I've flown with guys that have used it to get out of a crappy reserve schedule or may have needed more nights at home, etc. They had ZERO reservations about telling me.
Originally Posted by Scrappy
Speaking of the non-normal part - this is where I believe military, and even more so fighter pilots, have a very strong case. All mil guys are produced from the same level of standards when they go through UPT - and the airlines know this level of product. The USAF and USN stress keeping your cool throughout multiple "non-normal" situations, and I believe this does effect a mil guy's ability to deal with stressful situations.
Also, keep this in mind, especially with regards to your core points. For RIGHT HERE, and RIGHT NOW, if the points you mentioned were truly what the airlines wanted 100% of time, you wouldn't see a SINGLE civ/RJ pilot with NO TPIC getting hired. Because AGAIN, for RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW, there's still a TON of very experienced well rounded civ pilots that are ALSO very qualified, TPIC/LCA/CP, whatever. As well as do things like go and drive old ladies around on their days off.
Now in that SAME regard, you ALSO wouldn't see a single guard/reserve pilot (non tactical/single seat) that has been through training, and has a civ job on the side to build his total yet has NO PIC/AC being hired EITHER. Yeah, they may have 4-500 hours of mil training and flight time (the BEST KIND OF TIME TO HAVE, NO ARGUMENT) but they don't have any AC time, no IP/EP time. IOW, much of the experience you pointed out that makes a mil pilot valuable. It circles BACK around, reading these boards and others, combined with A LOT of guys I know. For RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW, there's a A LOT of mil pilots, with A LOT of boxes checked (IP/EP/NATOPS/Masters/High GPA's) that are STILL waiting on a call.
And please don't think that civilian guys are inferior by any means…my response is a rebuttal to the sophomoric post above only.
BOTH demographics bring qualities to the table. And the airlines recognize BOTH those demographics qualities and seek them. As much pain/discomfort is may cause people to read, sorry, NOBODY's d1ck is bigger.
And in regards to the guys that exploit orders, it's just like EVERYTHING else. A very small percentage of people can screw it up for the majority of people. I've flown with guys that have used it to get out of a crappy reserve schedule or may have needed more nights at home, etc. They had ZERO reservations about telling me.
09-20-2014, 04:50 PM
#557
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 303
Originally Posted by John Carr
Sigh............an uptick in hiring ALWAYS equates to an uptick is the mil vs. civ d1ck measuring contest.
Agree with that. However, the "dark decade" has produced, well, just that. A decade + of civ pilots (doesn't matter RJ, LCC, ACMI, whatever) that have more than likely dealt with "keep your cool" situations. An emergency (or two, or three). Multiple training events, etc. They ALSO dealt with crappy/hostile managements, crappy dispatchers and schedulers and having to do TONS of logistical support themselves, whatever. Jesus, some companies, EVERY day is a "non normal" day. Whether it's the constant schedule changes, constant MX issues, displacements, furloughs, etc.
Also, keep this in mind, especially with regards to your core points. For RIGHT HERE, and RIGHT NOW, if the points you mentioned were truly what the airlines wanted 100% of time, you wouldn't see a SINGLE civ/RJ pilot with NO TPIC getting hired. Because AGAIN, for RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW, there's still a TON of very experienced well rounded civ pilots that are ALSO very qualified, TPIC/LCA/CP, whatever. As well as do things like go and drive old ladies around on their days off.
Now in that SAME regard, you ALSO wouldn't see a single guard/reserve pilot (non tactical/single seat) that has been through training, and has a civ job on the side to build his total yet has NO PIC/AC being hired EITHER. Yeah, they may have 4-500 hours of mil training and flight time (the BEST KIND OF TIME TO HAVE, NO ARGUMENT) but they don't have any AC time, no IP/EP time. IOW, much of the experience you pointed out that makes a mil pilot valuable. It circles BACK around, reading these boards and others, combined with A LOT of guys I know. For RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW, there's a A LOT of mil pilots, with A LOT of boxes checked (IP/EP/NATOPS/Masters/High GPA's) that are STILL waiting on a call.
Same applies if you respond to my post.
BOTH demographics bring qualities to the table. And the airlines recognize BOTH those demographics qualities and seek them. As much pain/discomfort is may cause people to read, sorry, NOBODY's d1ck is bigger.
And in regards to the guys that exploit orders, it's just like EVERYTHING else. A very small percentage of people can screw it up for the majority of people. I've flown with guys that have used it to get out of a crappy reserve schedule or may have needed more nights at home, etc. They had ZERO reservations about telling me.
Agree with that. However, the "dark decade" has produced, well, just that. A decade + of civ pilots (doesn't matter RJ, LCC, ACMI, whatever) that have more than likely dealt with "keep your cool" situations. An emergency (or two, or three). Multiple training events, etc. They ALSO dealt with crappy/hostile managements, crappy dispatchers and schedulers and having to do TONS of logistical support themselves, whatever. Jesus, some companies, EVERY day is a "non normal" day. Whether it's the constant schedule changes, constant MX issues, displacements, furloughs, etc.
Also, keep this in mind, especially with regards to your core points. For RIGHT HERE, and RIGHT NOW, if the points you mentioned were truly what the airlines wanted 100% of time, you wouldn't see a SINGLE civ/RJ pilot with NO TPIC getting hired. Because AGAIN, for RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW, there's still a TON of very experienced well rounded civ pilots that are ALSO very qualified, TPIC/LCA/CP, whatever. As well as do things like go and drive old ladies around on their days off.
Now in that SAME regard, you ALSO wouldn't see a single guard/reserve pilot (non tactical/single seat) that has been through training, and has a civ job on the side to build his total yet has NO PIC/AC being hired EITHER. Yeah, they may have 4-500 hours of mil training and flight time (the BEST KIND OF TIME TO HAVE, NO ARGUMENT) but they don't have any AC time, no IP/EP time. IOW, much of the experience you pointed out that makes a mil pilot valuable. It circles BACK around, reading these boards and others, combined with A LOT of guys I know. For RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW, there's a A LOT of mil pilots, with A LOT of boxes checked (IP/EP/NATOPS/Masters/High GPA's) that are STILL waiting on a call.
Same applies if you respond to my post.
BOTH demographics bring qualities to the table. And the airlines recognize BOTH those demographics qualities and seek them. As much pain/discomfort is may cause people to read, sorry, NOBODY's d1ck is bigger.
And in regards to the guys that exploit orders, it's just like EVERYTHING else. A very small percentage of people can screw it up for the majority of people. I've flown with guys that have used it to get out of a crappy reserve schedule or may have needed more nights at home, etc. They had ZERO reservations about telling me.
Nobody is better I agree. And I certainly am not interested in measuring anyone's anything.
09-20-2014, 04:55 PM
#558
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Originally Posted by John Carr
Sigh............an uptick in hiring ALWAYS equates to an uptick is the mil vs. civ d1ck measuring contest.
Jus sayin.
09-20-2014, 05:09 PM
#559
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,660
Originally Posted by Scrappy
Good post and good points. Just not sure why you threw out the "sigh" comment?
Originally Posted by buzzpat
Reading your posts John, you talk about measuring d1cks A LOT. Its weird.
09-20-2014, 05:50 PM
#560
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 844
Originally Posted by Scrappy
Before you curse me out, please read my third paragraph…THERE ARE challenges in airline flying. And I think a military background deals with those challenges very well…worth the price of a few drills and mil leaves here and there…and the airlines are aware of that. So they will…and definitely should…continue to hire active guard/reserve pilots. And please don't think that civilian guys are inferior by any means…my response is a rebuttal to the sophomoric post above only.
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