Originally Posted by thruthemurk

...

Do you think this lifestyle and the rewards you get were created in a vacuum? Wake up.

Originally Posted by thruthemurk

If everyone had your enlightened view we would be flying for minimum wage 5 days a week and depending on the government for health care. How much would you enjoy the important things in life if you made $25,000 a year?

Do you think this lifestyle and the rewards you get were created in a vacuum? Wake up.

Originally Posted by Lerxst

Decision 83 hasn't been used in any ALPA contract since well before the concessionary/bankrupt ones the industry just finished cycling thru. My point was to simply illustrate that we were able to secure higher pay rates for MOST pilots coming from 2 dissimilar contracts in a merger situation.

Aircraft slated to retire during this and early into the next cycle will generally be replaced with smaller aircraft that will pay as much or more than the outgoing ones.

I think the biggest reason we ended up where we are was that somewhere along the way the Delta contract became the benchmark we had to shoot and settle for. They have banding that is similar in some respects, and dissimilar where we have the advantage; their airbus NB pays lower than their 737 NG. For a first bite at the apple we did okay and subjectively mirrored Delta's gains on the whole.

With the next cycle just around the corner I think we are well positioned to reestablish the pattern bargaining of old between us, AA, and DAL that will allow for a more rational division now that the end state fleet plan is firming up.

Originally Posted by Coach67

The fact that C2012 banded all these aircraft was just as stated ... a seniority argument LCAL attempted use to blunt LUAL's larger A/C with respect to Career Expectations. A simple example of that was when the LCAL EWR Cap Rep publically stated that the LCAL MEC would hold up the contract if it didn't include paybanding.

Originally Posted by Coach67

Well not really ... C2000 which was just a few months prior (not "well prior") to the BK contracts, was in fact a Decision 83 contract. The fact that C2012 banded all these aircraft was just as stated ... a seniority argument LCAL attempted use to blunt LUAL's larger A/C with respect to Career Expectations. A simple example of that was when the LCAL EWR Cap Rep publically stated that the LCAL MEC would hold up the contract if it didn't include paybanding.

Originally Posted by Pkcola

Again, it may have been but the contract we ended up with was to stop the carnage affecting one side. The end result was a contract with the least pain to move us to SLI. That we did and it's livable. The next contract should take us back to patterned bargaining.

Holding Delta as a yardstick fell short on many levels. Many felt following the Delta model of merger was prudent but that didn't happen either.

Originally Posted by Pkcola

It may be because you people like to use "you people" when talking about the other side.

Originally Posted by pilot64golfer

Yes. And we all realize that the LCAL individual line pilot did not do this, nor have any input in this.

There were many LCAL pilots who said "We just want a new contract" and the response was "Contracts come and go but SLI lasts forever". They should be just as angry because they lost out as well, having to wait on a contract, because the pay banding scheme did not work as planned.

No one blames the line LCAL pilot, but in retrospect, this was not a good way to start the marriage. Fortunately that decision making body is disbanded, so I guess we will see how things move forward with the new contract negotiations.