Jettubby

Those of you that are familiar with the Actor's and Performer's Guild. What would benefit airline pilots in this country is a Pilot Guild. A Guild is like a management company. If you want to work as a pilot you become a member to the guild and pay the guild dues much like you'd pay union dues. Once a part 121 pilot you are put on a Guild seniority list which would be much like a national seniority list. When companys need pilots they come to the Guild and the Guild provides the pilots. The Guild tells the company how much they'll pay the pilots, what benefits they'll provide the pilots, how many days off, etc. The Guild trains all pilots so if you are a 320 pilot for United, USAir, NW, etc you will all be trained the same. The FAA would love it. Talk about nationwide standardization. Essentially with a Guild you create pilots as a fixed cost to companies, essentially creating a national seniority list and thus end once and for all the bickering and back stabbing amongst pilots that managements love so much. If you don't join the Guild you are listed as a scab. If you are a Guild member and get laid off then you go back into the Guild pool. When a company is hiring they come to the Guild for pilots. You are offered the jobs in Seniority order. This would prevent getting laid off after you've put in say 10 years and having to go to a new airline at first year pay as your pay, benefits, days off,etc would be based upon years at the Guild and not years at one company. At first the airlines would balk at this but eventually they'd be paying the same price for pilots and thus be equal with regard to pilot labor for costs. It would provide stability for companies. They would not be downgraded on Wallstreet for pilot labor problems or quesionable labor costs. Again we'd be a fixed cost like an aircraft or landing fees.

Obviously there are tons of other details to be worked out and like anything it may not be a perfect solution but it's better than the 'union' mess we have today. There are a lot of benefits to pilots. If you look at the history of the Actor's and Performer's Guild you will see that before the Guild they were just like us; getting abused by management as there was always some cheaper pilot to fly the airplanes and causing actors and performers to stab each other in the back. The Guild brought all together for a unified cause and for the most part they are far much better than they were in the 1930's.

There are folks underground working on this very thing but the two most difficult things in getting a Guild going are money and getting the Unions out. Obviously I'm sure someone will post picking this idea apart; espeically your union folks but it's proven to work and is an enlightening prospect in such a dismal pilot world. For a few of you lucky ones your union has appeared to take care of you. For most it has destroyed careers.

Jettubby

Modern Guilds besides the Actors and Performers Guild is the Bar Association (Law) and the nation's Real Estate Brokerage.

Guild - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This would be much better that independent unions in my humble opinion.

Hoof Hearted

As a corporate pilot with no aviation union experience ( but other union experience prior to avaition ) this is the first idea that seems plausible. It would take a herculian effort but I believe this would benefit the pilot profession.
This same approach could be taken to professional sports thus eliminating the sports agent and letting the Guild argue for fair pay.( Sorry about the drift, I think it's a great idea)
What I think doesn't matter too much because as a corporate pilot I don't experience the issues that the 121 guys do. I would love to see this discussion broaden and have some more input, both pro's & con's without the heated passion that this talk usually generates,

Rama

The guild sets rates and tells companies who to hire? Sounds like an episode of the Sopranos A scab is someone that crosses the line during a strike not who refuses to join or work for a union.

Jettubby

You are correct sir. A scab would not be the correct term. A pilot seeking airline work that does not join the Guild would be blackballed (or similar term) from the industry.

Thanks for pointing that out. The term "scab" is used too losely in this industry unfortunately.

Mason32

Never ceases to amaze me how junior pilots can come on board at an airline, and come up with ideas like these. Probably have less than two years experience yet are fully qualified to fix an entire industry. They sound great, but if you carry them fully out through their logical progesssions, it can not work. Go put your headphones back on, plug in your ipod, put your books back in your backpack, and leave the grown up work to the grown ups.

For instance, just ONE problem. You can not force a company to hire somebody simply because they are next on a guild seniority list. Why should companies be forced to pay 15 year step pay, when there are lines of people who will take the job for 1st year pay.
This is but one example of why these types of ideas do not work in reality.
They are great to dream about, make a great soundbyte, but in reality are not workable.

Move on, drop it, and go put this much effort into your existing union instead.

__________________
Fly The Contract & Nothing More

vagabond

I can only speak about Bar Associations in general and the Washington State Bar Association in particular. The Wiki article is accurate in that the State Supreme Court decides the minimum criteria that must be met by any person wishing to practice law in that State. The Bar Association enforces those criteria, administers the Bar Examination, collects mandatory membership dues, keeps track of mandatory Continuing Legal Education credits, monitors lawyer general and IOLTA accounts, provides help and support to all members, and prosecutes lawyers who violate the rules of professional conduct. It is governed by a Board of Governors, and it has numerous Standing Committees made up of volunteer lawyers.

Although membership is mandatory, the Association does not dictate to law firms which lawyer(s) it should hire and how much to pay them. In that regard, it's every man for himself. Some choose to practice law by themselves, while others decide to join a firm. Still others collaborate either formally or simply share offices. In my mind, being a professional means that nobody but yourself determines how much you are paid. If you are good and can get those hard cases, you should be properly remunerated.

The idea proposed by the OP would work to some extent. It would have to mandate that ALL pilots be members, which is a huge hurdle not easily overcome. How would you deal with the fact that there are pilots all over the country? It's difficult enough to manage all lawyers in one single state. Crossing state lines to do that would be a bureaucratic nightmare. And what about military pilots who are transitioning to airlines? Would the guild oversee flight schools to ensure that standards are met?

milky

There are plenty of socialist countries in this world. Please move to one of them instead of trying to socialize this one.

__________________
-Milky

RedBaron007

Go easy on the guy. It's nice to see someone finally thinking out of the box. It's an interesting suggestion, and is very thought provoking, at least for me.

__________________
...giggity....giggity.........